Episode 4: Walk away

ANCHOR: September 25, 2004.

INTERVIEWEE: It was awful.

ANCHOR: Hurricane Jeanne. Weather-weary, storm-rattled central Florida residents are delivered a third powerful punch…

ANNA JOHANSEN BROWN, CO-HOST: On September 26th, 2004, most Florida residents are hunkered down inside. Hurricane Jeanne is slamming the eastern coast.

GIBBS: One of storms had just come through south of Tampa through Port Charlotte, ripped through the state. And every major airport in the southeast was closed.

The Schindlers and David Gibbs aren’t taking shelter inside. Instead, they’re making plans to head out on the roads…into the storm. They’re slated to appear for a full hour on Larry King Live in L.A…two-thousand miles away.

Right now, that’s looking pretty impossible. Then, Gibbs gets a call from one of Larry King’s staffers.

GIBBS: And she said, can you get to Miami? Well I knew Miami airport was closed. But she said we have a relationship with a carrier. And they’re going to land at the Miami Airport, and you will be allowed to board.

It’s the Schindlers’ last hope to make it out of the state. Gibbs hatches a plan.

GIBBS: First of all, I called the Schindlers and said, Are you willing to still go…And so we made the decision. Okay, we’ll go…So I called my grandfather and he had one of the big four door Cadillacs…if you’re going out to storm as well as something big. And then I called a young single attorney on my staff that could drive the car back. And I figured, well, if we all die in the wreck, he won't have as much family that will be sad.

It’s over 250 miles from the Tampa Bay area to Miami. The trek takes over four hours on a good day. But it’s not a good day. High winds and sheets of rain pelt the Caddie. Thunder booms overhead.

GIBBS: And we went out in some pretty bad weather, there’s no lights, everything’s knocked out. We saw massive damage. And I still remember that ride. You know, Bob Schindler cutting jokes, and probably because Mary was nervous. I don’t think Mary spoke a whole lot. She might have been like thinking we were all a little crazy, but we’re all fighting for Terri.

LAWLESS THEME:

LYNN VINCENT, CO-HOST : From WORLD Radio, and the creative team that brings you The World and Everything in It: This is Lawless. I’m New York Times bestselling author and WORLD Magazine executive editor Lynn Vincent.

ANNA: And I’m WORLD Radio Features Editor, Anna Johansen Brown. Lawless is a true crime podcast that examines a frightening fact of American life: That not every crime is against the law.

LYNN: In Season 2, we’re wrapping up our investigation of the Terri Schiavo story, a case that in 2005 shocked the world. This is Episode 4: Just Walk Away

SPONSORSHIP SPOT: Lawless is made possible by listeners like you. Additional support comes from Compelled Podcast. Listen to unique and compelling testimonies like Virginia Prodan, a human rights attorney in Communist Romania who came face-to-face with an assassin sent to kill her for defending Christians. Listen on your favorite podcast app or at CompelledPodcast.com.

LYNN: In October 2003, Terri has just gotten her feeding tube back after seven days of dehydration. Now, she’s bouncing back. Bob Schindler is not. The Schindlers live in daily suspense, and the stress is literally killing Bob Schindler. Dr. William Hammesfahr, one of the doctors who testified at Terri’s latest trial, checks his blood pressure. It’s off the charts.

MARY: It was like one almost 200 over 190. He sat him right down right that in that chair right away, and he would not let him leave. Okay, it was terrible. I’ll never forget that day. He told him to go called the doctor, his doctor, and we went over there. But oh, he was a mess.

The doctor pulls Mary aside.

MARY: Mary, he said, Let me tell you something, he says don’t worry about Bob. He said Now, he says you have nothing to worry about. He said but if Terri dies. And if she dies, then you start worrying.

ANNA: As lawyers for both sides spar over Terri’s Law, Terri gets another guardian ad litem. Professor Jay Wolfson. He’s not a medical doctor, but he has a doctorate in public health and a law degree.

He’s faced with a daunting task: Review the entire 13-year paper trail of the case in thirty days. After that, he has to give Governor Jeb Bush his recommendation…should the governor lift the stay on the removal of Terri’s feeding tube?

Wolfson holds long conversations with Michael and with the Schindlers. And he spends quite a bit of time visiting Terri, too.

WOLFSON: I would sit with her sometimes for hours, holding her hand, holding her head in my hand, stroking her hair, talking to her, I played music for her. I desperately, desperately wanted her to give me some consistent indication that she was interacting and responsive.

Wolfson submits his 40-page report on December 1st.

WOLFSON: I determined that the 13 years of evidence, the legal evidence, 30,000 pages of memoranda and motions and medical records, and the clinical evidence that was provided, established a clear and convincing basis using the standards of Florida law to determine that Terri was in fact in a persistent vegetative state.

Short version: Wolfson believes that Terri is in PVS…but he still thinks she should have another test, to see if she could learn to swallow food. If she can, Wolfson believes the governor’s stay should remain. If she can’t, the governor should lift the stay and allow the removal of her feeding tube.

Wolfson puts forward a plan to help Michael and the Schindlers resolve their differences out of court. The guardian ad litem would pick another round of specialists to examine Terri…But both sides have to agree beforehand how they’ll respond to findings.

At first, it seems to be working. Both sides seem willing. But at the last minute…11:50 p.m the night before Wolfson’s report is due…George Felos calls it off. Felos says it’s a noble effort, but he can’t go along with it. Wolfson was appointed under Terri’s Law…and that’s a law Felos doesn’t believe is constitutional.

LYNN: Then, on March 29th, 2004, the Schindlers get a call that shatters the fragile status quo. It’s from a local CBS reporter.

MARY: He said that, you were accused of putting puncture wounds in her arms.

Soon after a visit from the Schindlers, hospice staff had found Terri with five “fresh puncture wounds” on her arms. And something like a purple needle cap tucked in her gown. Felos swiftly circulates a press release labeling Terri’s room “a crime scene” and casting the Schindlers as primary suspects.

MARY: And I said, Bob, I said, Do you know I said “Do they really believe that we would do something like that? Why? Why would we do anything like that?”

Michael cuts off all visitors to Terri indefinitely while police investigate. The stress triggers a fainting spell for Bob Schindler. Mary rushes him to the E.R.

LYNN: The Schindlers have long felt that the courts are against them. They’ve even felt betrayed by their own Church, as a local priest testified on Michael’s behalf in the first trial over Terri’s wishes. And their own bishop, Robert Lynch, remains largely on the sidelines.

BOB: We begged for their assistance. We begged with the Catholic Church to come and stand behind Terri, and a number of Catholic not not only Catholic, but organizations throughout the country to please help us and no one would help us. It was essentially our family against the euthanasia movement.

Catholic priests came down on both sides of the debate…is it ethical to remove a person’s feeding tube?

But now, a new voice speaks up. A voice from the very top.

In March 2004, Pope John Paul II gives an address on life sustaining treatments. He doesn’t directly mention the Schindlers…but with Terri making international headlines, it’s a clear nod in their direction.

BOBBY: John Paul basically said that if a person is not dying, which Terri was not dying, if they’re not terminal, and are able to assimilate or metabolize food and hydration through a feeding tube, then we are morally obligated to continue that person’s care continue to provide them the food hydration through the feeding tube.

It buoys Mary’s weary soul.

MARY: And I was excited that he said it, saying it. And thinking that, you know, our family he has said something about our family, you know, and what was going on was, you just thank God that he did. And you prayed and thanked him for what, you know, the Pope was doing.

ANNA: Pat Anderson files yet another motion. She argues that Terri, as a devout Catholic, would never go against the pope’s teaching—regardless of any earlier wishes.
But Michael says Terri wasn’t a practicing Catholic. His brothers Scott and Steve back him up on this point.

SCOTT SCHIAVO: She graduated went to Catholic schools her whole life, but she wasn’t a full fledge churchgoer, like they’re making her sound…

STEPHEN SCHIAVO: Terri was Catholic in that she went to church every so often, she was not a devout Catholic in the time that I’ve known her. Granted, they’ve known her a lot longer, but she didn’t go to church.

Bobby says that’s not really for the Schiavos to say.

BOBBY: Was Terri a devout Catholic while married to Michael? I don’t know that Michael would know how to answer that for the simple fact he wasn’t Catholic.

Mary says, even though Michael was married to Terri, he wasn’t around enough to know what her faith was.

MARY: Michael worked a lot on Sundays. Okay, he was managing a restaurants and stuff. He never knew when Terri went to church with Bob and I and she did go to church. Maybe not every Sunday. But as far as I remember, she went to church with us all the time. We used to go four o’clock in the afternoon. And he worked. Usually Bob and I would go to church on a Saturday and most time Terri would go to church with us.

Terri did go to mass with Mary and Bob on the afternoon of Saturday, February 24, 1990…the last normal day of her life.

BOBBY: Even if you want to believe that Terri wasn’t what Michael would describe as a devout Catholic. That doesn’t justify taking away her food and hydration. It’s still unethical. It’s still against the teachings of the Church. It’s never right. You can never justify deliberately killing a human being.

ANNA: On May 5th, 2004, Judge W. Douglas Baird of the Sixth Circuit issues his ruling in the fight over Terri’s Law.

KURTIS: A district judge has now ruled that Terri’s law is unconstitutional. Governor Jeb Bush lost no time in lodging an appeal. The case may eventually be appealed all the way to the US Supreme Court.

Terri’s Law is out, but the feeding tube stays in…for now.

LYNN: That summer, Clearwater police release their report on Terri’s mysterious puncture wounds. After a month-and-a-half of investigating, they find nothing nefarious. Terri’s blood screens are negative, so she wasn’t injected with anything. And that purple cap wasn’t a needle cap: it was a plastic connector for a catheter. And hospice staff confirm that Terri indeed had those marks on her arms before the Schindlers visited that day. In fact, they said that before George Felos sent out his press release.

Investigators’ best guess is that Terri was injured on a Hoyer lift…a tool used to move bedridden patients. Michael doesn’t buy that. He’s still deeply suspicious of the Schindlers. Greer grants the Schindlers a 90-minute visit with Terri anyway. But, Michael’s guardianship attorney, Deborah Bushnell, says the Schindlers’ visit should be supervised. Pat Anderson takes Bushnell to the mat.

ANDERSON: Greer ruled in our favor. And he left the bench. There are a bunch of reporters in the courtroom. One of them came up to me and said Mrs. Bushnell has said that Bob and Mary are not going to get their visitation restored. What do you think about that? And I went over and said, Did you say you’re not you’re not going to let her parents see her? Despite what the judge just said? She said, Yes. And I said, you’re gonna burn in hell.

LYNN: Bushnell says things actually escalated a step further…Anderson followed her to the door and told her to watch out…Bushnell says Anderson threatened her. Bushnell reports the incident to Judge Greer.

Still, Greer restores the Schindlers’ visitation rights soon afterwards. Mary is overjoyed.

MARY: All I know is I could go see my daughter again. That’s all I cared about. Away from her for two months. I was never away from her that long ever. I just wanted to stay there.

ANNA: Two months later, the Florida Supreme Court hears oral arguments in Bush v. Schiavo on August 31, 2004. The Schindlers and their lawyers aren’t officially part of this fight. They watch from the sidelines as Felos and the Governor’s attorneys duke it out.

DESTRO: But in fact, the legislature has given the power to any person in the state of Florida to to raise the question of the rights of a vulnerable adult in an appropriate court. And that’s really all this act does. I’m 

FELOS: This young woman has a right to have her final adjudication honored by the courts of Florida, this unlawful intrusion into that right, should be overturned and definitively overturned so her right to privacy and be effective.

The next month, the court hands down its decision. It’s unanimous.

DOYLE: Now the courts agreed with her husband until Florida Governor Jeb Bush stepped in and passed legislation to keep her alive. Now that bill has been declared unconstitutional, and the path is once again open to end Terri’s life. But the governor has pledged to appeal the court’s latest ruling.

In October, the court denies Governor Bush’s appeal for rehearing. The U.S. Supreme Court is now the last line of defense for Terri’s Law.

LYNN: On a reporting trip to Florida in August 2021, I make a stop in Titusville to visit the headquarters of Priests for Life. It’s a Catholic organization founded in the early 1990s with the goal of ending abortion and euthanasia.

I’m here to interview someone who lent a heavy spiritual and political hand to the Schindler family towards the end of Terri’s life: Priests for Life director Frank Pavone.

FRANK PAVONE: This was actually like this when we bought the building. But yeah, isn’t it beautiful? …

LYNN VINCENT: This looks like my office.

FRANK PAVONE: Does it?

LYNN VINCENT: Yeah, when I move in here.

With production assistant Lillian Hamman, I follow Pavone as he gives us a tour of the headquarters. There are offices, a library, a broadcast studio, and a chapel. T-shirts that say, “Social Justice begins in the womb” are rolled up and ready to send out in the mailroom. Pavone’s office is right off the kitchen. A green gecko scurries by as we walk in.

PAVONE: They’re actually friendly because they eat insects.

VINCENT: I love geckos.

PAVONE: Those little guys (laughs)

The office is decorated with pictures of Pavone and various presidents. He seems especially proud of the one with Donald Trump.

PAVONE: I was privileged during the campaign to head up as national co-chair, the pro life voices for Trump, that was one of the many Coalition's that were formed.

ANNA: Pavone is a firebrand of a priest, hailing from New York. Ordained by the Catholic Church at age 29, Pavone started as director of the anti abortion group Priests for Life five years later. He was just defrocked last fall in 2022 for what the Vatican called “blasphemous” social media posts and disobedience to his bishop.

PAVONE: And they’ve tried to cancel me in various ways, they tried first by saying, “Well, you can’t be full time director of Priests for Life, we need you back in a parish.” I said, “Well, I’m sorry, but this is my conscience, this is my vocation”...

The Schindlers first met Pavone at a National Right to Life convention in 1999. They struck up a conversation and eventually began meeting privately with him.

PAVONE: And they reached out and asked for my help, initially, for my help in simply publicizing the case and as it was starting to pick up publicity, they said, Father, you know, it can’t hurt, the more people that know about it, the more people can, can speak up for us and advocate for us.

AUDIO O'Reilly: You feel bad for Michael Schiavo?

PAVONE: Oh, I certainly do. In fact, Bill, I've reached out to him publicly, in many of my public statements, inviting him to repentance and also inviting him to sit down and and discuss the matter reasonably…

By this time, media figures had begun caricaturing the Schindlers, particularly Bob, as money-grubbing publicity hounds. But Pavone spent a lot of time with the family throughout the Schiavo case. He says that’s not true.

PAVONE: One of the reflections I often make about the family is they were not looking for any kind of spotlight. I mean, all they were doing, the reason they ended up in the spotlight, is that they were simply living the vocation of a family, they were living the vocation of love. And you can have a very private, humble family. They don’t want any notoriety. But when somebody comes in there and tries to interfere with the love that they’re giving you one another, they’re gonna they’re gonna fight back. And that’s exactly what happened.

In September 2004, Pavone visits Terri for the first time. As with so many others, he is surprised at Terri’s level of interaction.

PAVONE: You know, she was there in her bed. And her dad greeted her right away and did the funny thing about the mustache and the tickling. And her mom was joking with her. And it was just a feeling of family being together. They obviously had a routine going on that I was kind of stepping into and, and witnessing for the first time. And then they welcomed, they welcomed me right away into that whole dynamic of you know, talking with Terri and praying, praying with her and joking with her and, and so forth.

During these September visits, Pavone prays with Terri. He also has a very specific message for her.

PAVONE: I also often would tell her to unite her sufferings to Jesus offer, offer your suffering, and you it has meaning it has value the Lord is is receiving it and is helping others through it.

But there is one person who would come to see Pavone’s role in the story as anything but helpful. George Felos would later denounce Pavone publicly as someone who injected divisiveness into the battle over Terri’s life.

ANNA: That same month, Pat Anderson officially passes the baton to David Gibbs. She’s devoted the last three years of her life to the case…and now she’s just run out of gas. Gibbs takes over as the Schindlers’ lead counsel.

GIBBS: We made the decision, that with all the media attention, that anything we could do to raise awareness was at least helping the conversation and, in a sense, helping the cause, helping fight for Terri’s life, getting the truth out.

That’s why the Schindlers risk the trip to Miami International Airport in hurricane weather, to be on Larry King Live. They’re desperate to get the word out to anyone who will listen. As they drive, they pass by flattened exit signs and gas stations. First responders speed by. But the storm lessens a bit as they go.

The Schindlers arrive safely in Miami. They check into their hotel…but the power’s down. They splash cold water on their faces and collapse into bed.

LYNN: Early the next morning, they catch their flight out…on a refueling airliner. The airport is still closed, so there’s no security. The Schindlers don’t even have tickets. But, a staffer escorts them to the gangway and they climb aboard.

Their sudden entrance creates quite a stir. Fellow passengers recognize Bob and Mary from TV.

GIBBS: There was a lot of buzz. And so we get, I think three of us had like kind of a coach rode together. So we’re sitting there while people start coming up. And so we had more trinkets and lucky charms and beads. And you know, here’s my lucky silver coin. I’ve always used, you know, good luck and fight for that girl.

Finally, they touch down in sunny Los Angeles…But, they’re not in the clear yet.

GIBBS: Unbeknownst to us, Larry King had gotten desperately sick, and had come down with pneumonia. So Larry King’s in the hospital.

Someone else will have to host the Schindlers’ interview. Or, it may have to be postponed. At least that’s what Larry King’s staff think.

GIBBS: While we were kind of in the hotel, trying to figure out whether we want on TV or not that night, Larry King is in the hospital, and gets notified of what all we had done. So when he heard what all we had done, against doctor’s orders, signs himself out And he went from the hospital to the studio…

For Larry King, the show must go on.

GIBBS: He is sick…coughing, hacking, spewing…can’t even meet with us ahead of time. And, David, I’m going to kind of, He’s coughing, I can’t hear him. And they kind of do three to eight for the finger at him. And he could shut it off. And he’s like, and welcome to Larry King Live…

SOUND: LARRY KING LIVE INTRO MUSIC.

GIBBS: And a lot of people viewed that interview, that have looked at it as a little bit of a turning point, because I think we’d had enough time on that program. To get past some of the little snippet comments. But for people to look at the parents, for the people to think about situation.

LYNN: October 26th, 2004. Gibbs sends a letter to Michael’s team with a new offer.

BOBBY: We wrote Michael Schiavo a letter. And we asked him, you know, please give Terri back to us. No strings attached we just want our daughter. And of course that letter was ignored.

When he doesn’t hear back, Gibbs calls Felos directly. Felos rejects the offer, but counters with a deal of his own: Let another doctor examine Terri…if she can improve, fine. If not, the Schindlers allow Michael to remove the feeding tube. The two lawyers end the call in a stalemate.

ANNA: That winter, Governor Bush appeals to the court of last resort. He asks the U.S. Supreme Court to step in…to review the state court’s decision on Terri’s Law. But on January 24th, 2005, the U.S. Supreme Court declines the case. The state court’s ruling will stand: Terri’s Law is unconstitutional.

The following month, Greer orders Terri’s feeding tube removed on March 18th, 2005. By now, the case has escalated into a political firestorm. Over the last few days, Greer’s gotten over 5,300 emails about it. People leave voicemails with foul language. Police escort the judge wherever he goes.

GREER: The real impact was on after work. And before work. We had details of undercover deputy sheriff's that are home 24/7. They took us wherever we went. I wore a bulletproof vest when I wasn’t in the courthouse and wasn’t at home. When I walked the dog, I wore a bulletproof vest.

Police are also monitoring protesters. One officer takes down the license plate numbers of almost 100 vehicles at the hospice and other spots around town. They keep a close eye on Michael’s home. Whenever Jodi leaves the house, they check to make sure she isn’t followed. 

By now, the Schiavos are getting lots of disturbing mail. Michael records these incidents in his book. Someone from Wichita, Kansas, sends their neighbors hundreds of postcards announcing: “Your neighbor Michael Schiavo…is trying to murder his wife.” Another time, a lovely bouquet arrives at the Schiavos’ house. A protester sent it. The card is signed, “Love, Terri.”

MICHAEL: My house is invaded day in and day out. And these are people pushing their views on me. And I don't I don't understand that. You have your view on things and you have your beliefs on that's great, but don't stand outside somebody else's house and push that on them.

The darkest letters contain slurs and threats against Michael’s kids.

MICHAEL: I used to get letters that they want to steal my children, but at the end of the letter, they would they would quote scripture from the Bible.

The Schiavos have security cameras installed. Someone monitors the cameras whenever the kids are in their rooms alone. Michael blames Jeb Bush for fueling the craze.

MICHAEL: And I blame him for most of the actions that people have taken against me...Death threats, people threatening to steal my children…He made my life miserable. For the years that I've spent trying to grant my wife's wishes…He likes to preach limited government. Where was the limited government with me?

Police get intel on a demonstration planned at the Schiavos’ house. Michael and Jodi take the kids and leave. But, they return two days later. Jodi is determined not to cancel their son’s first birthday party.

Two family friends—an elderly couple—get the date wrong. They show up on the Schiavo’s doorstep in the middle of the protest. Demonstrators waylay them, thinking they’re Michael’s parents. The hecklers are Franciscan monks.

LYNN: Then the Florida Department of Children and Families enters the picture. When the Schindlers originally tried to nail Michael on abuse charges, local investigators declined to get involved. But now, DCF wants to look into it.

Michael says Jeb Bush has DCF in his pocket…and that’s why the agency is stepping up now.
DCF petitions Judge Greer for another delay. Postpone the removal of the feeding tube while DCF investigates charges of abuse…those allegations that Michael had denied Terri rehab, and wouldn’t even open the blinds in her hospice room.

But it doesn’t take long for Greer to shut down the DCF request. He even takes it a step farther: He declares the court will no longer grant stays pending appeal. Greer says “there will always be ‘new’ issues that can be pled.” He isn’t going to keep postponing the feeding tube removal again and again. And, on March 8th, 2005, Greer adds a new order prohibiting anyone from giving Terri food or water by mouth.

ANNA: Camera crews stake out Michael Schiavo’s house. Satellite trucks clog the street outside the hospice.

CARRIE: All of the national media converged on this little tiny street and they were set up in between the warehouses down here with their tents, you know, and their cameras

National reporters are covering the case, people like Anderson Cooper and Sean Hannity. Less prominent, though, are local reporters like Carrie Kirkland. Amid the political narrative sweeping the country, she focuses on facts on the ground.

CARRIE KIRKLAND: Good morning it is 5:55 at 104.7 WRBQ I’m Carrie Kirkland. Our top story protesters are getting desperate and the politics of life and death continue, details in just a moment.

Carrie’s reporting for Metro Network’s Westwood One. But the journalists who write the news copy aren’t getting their facts right. They keep saying Terri’s on life support. Carrie is supposed to read that news copy on the air…but it’s not accurate.

CARRIE: I was just in this constant struggle and battle with the news organization that I was working for at that time. To just, you know, report the actual fact that it’s a feeding tube and not life support…every single morning on the phone to my local news bureau chief, you know, in Tampa, you know, please can we report a feeding tube, I see that you wrote the wire story, again, with life support, can we change it to a feeding tube?

Westwood One’s bureau chief tells Carrie she’s biased.

CARRIE: And I go, No, I’m not. That’s what the actual thing is. Carrie_And I go no.wav And I’m, like, I’m telling you, that’s what it is. I know, the family. That’s what’s happening. And then, you know, I didn’t get you know, the answers that I wanted from the local news bureau chief, so I would call the national news deck, because because I’m extra pushy. You know, I want things my way.

Carrie keeps pushing and eventually she does get her way.

CARRIE: The facts are the facts. Right. So eventually, they gave in and started letting me write the news stories, you know, for the Schiavo story. And that’s where a toward the end I got I was given the ability to you know, write the story exactly as it was happening…I was really getting to report, you know, all of the actual facts and put them on the news wire for other people to read around the country.

Carrie wonders if she’d been able to do that from the start…maybe things could have been different.

LYNN: Meanwhile, the Schindlers go to Florida’s Second District Court of Appeal.

But on March 16, 2005, the court rejects their appeal. The Supreme Court of the United States also declines to get involved.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: The US Supreme Court has refused to hear the Terri's Law case. And now Florida Governor Jeb Bush is running out of legal options.

It’s just two days before Terri’s tube comes out. An emotional roller coaster for everyone involved. Things are changing by the hour, as the Schiavo case bounces up and down the ladder of the American legal system.

The Schindlers are worn out—exhausted and emotionally drained. They soldier on, but time and options are running thin.

Michael and Jodi are sitting at home, dreading the next phone call…the next update, the next development. They’ve been in survival mode for months—hounded by protestors and media alike. Jodi isn’t sure how much more they can take.

ANNA: Lawless is a production of WORLD Radio. Paul Butler is our executive producer and sound engineer. Music by Will Shehan. Lawless is reported and written by Grace Snell, Lynn Vincent, and me, Anna Johansen Brown. For more resources related to this and other episodes, visit LawlessPodcast.com. Thanks for joining us.

SPONSORSHIP MESSAGE: Additional support comes from Compelled Podcast. Listen to unique and compelling testimonies like Ron Adkins, who at the age of 19, was sentenced to almost 500 years in prison. Ron's violence eventually led him to solitary confinement for over a decade where he was told he would remain until he died. Condemned by society and separated from humanity, Ron knew that he was utterly alone...or was he? Listen on your favorite podcast app or at CompelledPodcast.com.

AUDIO SOURCES
(In order of appearance)

Remembering Hurricane Jeanne: Deadliest storm of 2004, Youtube video by WESH 2 News

NPR: Schiavo's Previous Guardian, audio from NPR.org

MSNBC: Countdown with Keith Olbermann, Bob Schindler [10/28/2003], video from Terri Schiavo archives at Ave Maria University

Lynn Doyle [2004], video from Terri Schiavo archives at Ave Maria University

Full Rigor: “The Dance of the Feeding Tube,” the Terri Shiavo story, audio from 850 WFTL

Between Life & Death - the Terri Schiavo Story, Vimeo video by beanfieldproductions 

Bush v. Schiavo oral arguments, video by C-Span

Lynn Doyle [2004], video from Terri Schiavo archives at Ave Maria University

CNN CNNI Larry King Theme 1993, Youtube video by Zachary Lintott

Shortcut of Terri Schiavo story, Youtube video koliberek89

The Terri Schiavo Case with Judge Greer, Youtube video by St. Petersburg College

Terri Schiavo Documentary: The Case's Enduring Legacy | Retro Report | The New York Times, Youtube video The New York Times

Alan Colmes and Michael Schiavo, video by Fox News

Michael Schiavo weighs in on Jeb Bush's potential bid for president, Youtube video by ABC Action News

WORLD Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of WORLD Radio programming is the audio record.