The World and Everything in It: September 17, 2025

Editor's note: The following text is a transcript of a podcast story. To listen to the story, click on the arrow beneath the headline above.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Good morning!

Vice President J.D. Vance says America has to pull together. We’ll ask what that looks like in a time of violent rhetoric and action.

VANCE: Real unity, can be found only after climbing the mountain of truth. And there are difficult truths we must confront in our country.

NICK EICHER, HOST: Washington Wednesday coming up, Hunter Baker standing by.

Also today, WORLD Tour.

And later, a baseball team known for outrageous stunts is seeking authenticity beyond the show.

CRUZ: We don’t want to seem insincere when we are sharing our faith.

And WORLD commentator Janie B. Cheaney on when anger becomes sin.

MAST: It’s Wednesday, September 17th. This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Lindsay Mast.

EICHER: And I’m Nick Eicher. Good morning!

MAST: Up next, Kent Covington with today’s news.

KENT COVINGTON, NEWS ANCHOR: Trump to UK » The roar of jet engines as Air Force One rolled down the tarmac at London Stansted Airport just minutes before a helicopter took President Trump and first lady Melania to their first stop.

The president spoke to reporters from the residence of the US Ambassador to the UK Warren Stephens.

TRUMP:  We had a good flight. And tomorrow’s going to be a very big day, Mr. Ambassador.

STEPHENS: Mr. President, it’s going to be a historic day.

TRUMP: Thank you all very much.

With this visit, Trump becomes the first US president to receive a second state visit to the U.K.

The president will meet with Prime Minister Keir Starmer and others. Trump says U.K. officials want to continue trade negotiations in hopes of reducing US tariffs on British goods.

Trump will also meet with King Charles III at Windsor Castle.

Fed meeting » President Trump also said he has just added a new board member to the Federal Reserve, with investors anticipating an interest rate announcement.

TRUMP: I have just signed his document and all of the papers, and Steve Miran is now on.

Stephen Miran is a top White House economist. The Senate confirmed him on Monday, largely down party lines ahead of this week’s Fed meeting.

And today could be the day that the central bank cuts interest rates for the first time since December.

Investors expect the Fed to reduce its benchmark interest rate today by a quarter point, to about 4.1%.

Inflation has not spiked, as many feared, as a result of new tariffs, but it also remains stubbornly high.

But employment has also slowed, which may push the Fed to announce a new cut.

Retail sales are up » The Fed also has some new good economic news to mull over. WORLD’s Benjamin Eicher has more.

BENJAMIN EICHER: Shoppers increased their spending at a better-than-expected pace in August from July … helped by back-to-school shopping.

Retail sales rose six-tenths of a percent last month.

That comes after consumers also boosted spending by at least roughly that amount in June and July of this year.

Excluding car sales, consumer spending jumped seven-tenths in August. … Non-store retailer online shopping increased more than 10% … and sales at food and dinking places were up by 6.5%.

For WORLD, I’m Benjamin Eicher.

T.Robinson charges » The man accused of killing Charlie Kirk faced a judge Tuesday in a Utah courtroom.

GRAF:  Mr. Robinson, at this time, you will remain in custody without bail.

The judge heard there addressing 22-year-old Tyler Robinson. He faces seven criminal counts in state court in connection with the fatal shooting of Kirk last week.

Prosecutors submitted the charges against Robinson, including a count of aggravated murder.

And Utah prosecutor Jeff Gray announced Tuesday:

GRAY:  I am filing a notice of intent to seek the death penalty. I do not take this decision lightly and it is a decision I have made independently as county attorney.

The aggravated murder charge could be punishable by death or life in prison.

Higher penalties could be in order because Robinson allegedly targeted Kirk for his political beliefs and carried out the shooting in the presence of children.

The Washington Post reports that Robinson appeared to make a confession in an online group chat shortly before turning himself in.

Israel latest » Hundreds of demonstrators gathered in Jerusalem last night to call for an end to the war in Gaza. WORLD's Travis Kircher reports now from Israel.

SOUND: Demonstrators

TRAVIS KIRCHER: The protesters gathered in central Jerusalem's prestigious Rehavia neighborhood on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's street.

They called for the renewal of peace talks the return of hostages taken by Hamas and an end to the war.

Ynon Wygoda identified himself as an Orthodox Jew and said his faith moved him to attend.for the sake of the people in Gaza.

WYGODA: For thousands of years we have suffered at the hands of others and I tremble at the thought that now that we have some power, others are suffering under our hands.

Netanyahu says Hamas is the source of the suffering, and there can be no peace until the terror group is defeated.

And the anti-war demonstration was interrupted:

SOUND: Air raid sirens

After the Hamas-allied Houthi rebels fired another rocket at Israel.

One woman told us the air radi sirens have become part of Israeli life.

RONIT: Usually if you’re outside you need to sit down with your hands on your head. I don’t know why, but this is the instruction. [LAUGHS]

Netanyahu says President Trump invited him for a return visit to the White House in two weeks.

Trump recently dispatched Sec. of State Marco Rubio to Israel in a show of ongoing support for the Jewish state.

Reporting for WORLD...I'm Travis Kircher, in Jerusalem.

Robert Redford obituary » Hollywood icon Robert Redford has died at the age of 89.

He rose to fame in the 1960s and was one of the biggest stars of the ’70s and 80s, appearing in films like “All the President’s Men” and “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.”

But in a 2003 interview, he said he could never pick a favorite.

REDFORD:  I loved all the Presidents men because everyone said it couldn't be made. Everyone said, it's impossible. No one's gonna see it. No one cares. It's about Watergate. Butch Cassidy was just one of the finest examples of really good, solid movie making and entertainment.

He debuted as director in 1980 with Ordinary People, taking home Oscars for Best Picture and Best Director.

His directing career spanned more than 30 years, including critically acclaimed films like Quiz Show and A River Runs Through It.

I'm Kent Covington.

Straight ahead: Washington Wednesday with Hunter Baker. Plus, exhibition baseball and evangelism.

This is The World and Everything in It.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: It’s Wednesday the 17th of September.

This is WORLD Radio and we’re so glad you’ve joined us today. Good morning, I’m Lindsay Mast.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher.

First up on The World and Everything in It: Washington Wednesday.

It’s difficult to believe it’s been only a week since the assassination of Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk, a national figure cut down in broad daylight. And now he joins one of the shortest lists in American history—political leaders struck down by political violence:

Abraham Lincoln. James Garfield. William McKinley. John F. Kennedy: presidents. Robert F. Kennedy, presidential candidate. Leaders of national movements, Malcolm X. Martin Luther King Junior. And now, Charlie Kirk. By that measure, just eight. It has been more than half a century since America last endured the assassination of a national figure. Until a week ago.

MAST: In an unprecedented gesture, the body of Charlie Kirk was flown home aboard Air Force Two, with Vice President J.D. Vance escorting his family. Never before has the U.S. government used a vice-presidential aircraft in such a manner. And on Monday, the vice president sat in as a guest host of The Charlie Kirk Show a highly popular podcast. He called for Americans to unite against political violence—though, as he put it, true unity must begin with truth:

VANCE: I really do believe that we can come together in this country. I believe we must. But unity, real unity, can be found only after climbing the mountain of truth. And there are difficult truths we must confront in our country.

One of the difficult truths now is the reality of violent rhetoric and its consequences. Almost immediately after Kirk’s death some posted celebrations online, others, somewhat less distastefully, mocked or criticized him. Some of those voices, whether in media, business, or education have since found themselves out of work.

EICHER: Some say that response is something Charlie Kirk would not have approved of.

Adam Goldstein at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression said that in a free society we can’t be afraid to express our views despite opposition, and he cautioned against canceling those who offend us.

Vice President Vance, though, had this response to an article in the magazine The Nation:

VANCE: There is no unity with the people who celebrate Charlie Kirk's assassination, and there is no unity with the people who fund these articles, who pay the salaries of these terrorist sympathizers who argue that Charlie Kirk, a loving husband and father deserved a shot to the neck because he spoke words with which they disagree.

MAST: So is this just another side of the cancel-culture coin?

Political scientist and WORLD Opinions contributor Hunter Baker joins us now to talk it. Hunter, good morning.

HUNTER BAKER: Good morning.

MAST: Hunter, is that what this is?

BAKER: Yeah, I am one of these people who was very distressed to see the growth of cancel culture, and I thought it was a dangerous thing, and I hated the way that we would just throw people away for making the wrong comment. But I've thought really hard about this, and I think that this is a different kind of a thing that we're talking about. When we talk about free speech in the United States, we're talking about a freedom of exchange of political ideas, or about the nature of truth, or sort of philosophic thoughts. We're protecting the ability to criticize the government, to try to shape public policy those sorts of things. When we look at the kinds of things that people were saying about Charlie Kirk, I would argue that they are a celebration of and an incitement to murder. Encouraging people to commit murder is not, in my opinion, a valid form of free speech or political speech. You know, we are. We're asking people essentially, to exit the realm of politics and to enter into the realm of war. I think that Charlie Kirk was treated as though he was an enemy combatant in a war, rather than one of our fellow citizens. So from my perspective, when people celebrate his death and seem to egg on others to do more of the same. First of all, I legitimately consider it a possibility that there's a sort of demonic possession of people going on with this. x, it's utterly disastrous where people are supposed to debate and talk and sort of try to arrive at the truth together

MAST: I have a follow-up, Hunter, and it connects to what Vance was saying about condemning political violence. He’s not alone in that, but one area I’ve noticed that’s been strikingly silent is higher education.

This assassination happened on a college campus. Parents are asking—can their kids gather safely? Can they engage in debate? Can they even talk openly?

And yet, I simply haven’t seen many colleges issue a clear statement condemning Kirk’s murder.

What should we make of that?

BAKER: Well, I think that during the covid era and sort of the George Floyd controversy, colleges felt that they were being constantly asked to take a public position, you know, on every issue that arose, take a public position and and that can be quite challenging, right? You know, to try to formulate a proper sort of a position for every one of these things that comes up. And the more you do it, the more people will ask you, why aren't you doing it? And so I think that most colleges during that period kind of settled upon this idea that we are not going to issue statements with regard to issues that don't directly involve the college. Now, what I will say, though, is, I think that Ari Fleischer, former Bush communications expert, he said something great, which is the he thought that the the Ivy League colleges, and I don't know why this wouldn't go for other colleges as well. Should set up annual Charlie Kirk lectures, which are aimed at encouraging the value of free speech. I think colleges need to double down on that. It's something that has that has gotten worse. When I was in college in the late 80s, we all we strongly believed in free speech, right and left, and what happened over time is that you would see conservative speakers going to colleges and being hit in the face with a pie or have mayonnaise thrown at their head or something like that. I can remember one AEI scholar and his faculty sponsor being literally assaulted and injured.

EICHER: Charles Murray.

BAKER: It was Charles Murray. That's right, instead of being allowed to speak and countless others being shouted down, now that we've seen somebody actually killed, this is a moment where it's time to reverse course hard and to really impress people with the value of free speech.

EICHER: With respect, Ari’s idea sounds like a good one, but I’ve got a proposed policy statement I think any educator, college, institutional head can sign onto. I mean, this was a political assassination, one of eight in the history of the country. And the first, I think, ever to take place on a college campus. So an institution can easily restrict it to that, go ahead and condemn that.

BAKER: That's a reasonable distinction. Yeah,
That's true. And you noticed that I, as an educator, I had a lot to say about it in print and on my social media. So I've tried to do my part.

MAST: Absolutely.

Something else notable in Vance’s podcast hosting … he spoke of the need for unity against political violence. I’d like to play this and get your response:

VANCE: This violence, it doesn’t come from nowhere. Now, any political movement, violent or not violent, is a collection of forces. It’s like a pyramid that stacks on top one support on top of the other. That pyramid has got a foundation of donors, of activists, of journalists, now of social media influencers, and of course of politicians. Not every member of that pyramid would commit a murder. In fact, over 99%, I’m sure, would not. But by celebrating that murder, apologizing for it, and emphasizing not Charlie’s innocence but the fact that he said things some didn’t like—even to the point of lying about what he actually said—many of these people are creating an environment where things like this are inevitably going to happen.

What do you think?

BAKER: Well, there's definitely something going on, I mean, and I've noticed that there's sort of a race to establish an empirical case, right? Who is more likely to do this? The Vice President sort of made a case that, objectively, the left is cultivating this sort of of a reaction and egging it on. And I saw a piece in The New York Times earlier today arguing exactly the opposite. So we're gonna, we're gonna, kind of have this debate over who is really doing this. But I think that when you look at this language of fascism being thrown around, the idea that Donald Trump is a fascist, the idea that people who are allied with him are fascists, and therefore similar to Adolf Hitler or Benito Mussolini, then it's obvious that you are encouraging people to see them as enemies who must be destroyed and not people who even deserve to be engaged in terms of a debate. I mean, one of the things that I think that is so tragic about all this is that Charlie Kirk so closely embodied the ideal of debate. I think, as Ezra Klein said, and I really appreciate him saying this, Charlie Kirk was doing exactly what an American is supposed to do. He was encouraging people to engage in open debate. And in fact, you know, if you watch the clips of him at these rallies, he says, If you disagree with me, come to the front of the line, and instead, what he got was a bullet. Instead, what he got was killed. To me, it's just one of the greatest political failures I can imagine.

EICHER: Yes, and this week the White House started signaling it intends to act. Senior officials say they are looking to classify some left-wing activity as domestic terrorism. They’re exploring racketeering charges under RICO statutes. They’re also examining whether certain nonprofits should lose their tax-exempt status if they’re proved to have supported or encouraged violence.

It’s much the same toolset past administrations have been accused of misusing—think of the IRS targeting conservative groups under Obama, or aggressive enforcement under Biden, to say the least. We heard a lot about lawfare then. But now it’s the right in power, and the target is the left.

So Hunter, is this a legitimate crackdown, or is it lawfare we’ve criticized before?

BAKER: Well, on the one hand, I like the idea of giving the left pause about some of these things. I like the idea of letting them think, you know, look this, we're taking this very seriously. Don't be cavalier about it. On the other hand, anything that you do, you have to be worried about how the other side will use it when they're in power and and I think about the RICO statutes were often used against pro lifers. In fact, Randy Alcorn, the pro lifer to this day, he basically cannot earn any income because he doesn't want it to be garnished and paid to organizations that are pro choice. And that's the RICO statutes were actually used in that way, were struck down by the Supreme Court, but he informed me that Oregon had a state version that still was affecting him, and so we don't want to see people sort of dogged and pursued in this fashion by the government, but sending a message of seriousness that we need To be responsible about this stuff. That's exactly right.

MAST: Hunter, I know you remember three weeks ago when I asked you this question:

MAST: I’m curious, Hunter. Can you point to anyone of similar stature today? Is there anyone having an Esther moment where they were called to a time such as this? Someone who’s capable of carrying on that legacy?

BAKER: It’s really a tough question. You know, I have watched significant leader after significant leader leave the scene. I think about people, not only evangelicals, but people such as Richard John Neuhaus and William F. Buckley, Charles Colson, James Dobson. And I’m not sure if I see who is really going to replace them, but I can tell you somebody who I think is trying, and that’s Charlie Kirk. I increasingly hear people impressed with Charlie Kirk and think that maybe he's really building something. So we’ll see.

EICHER: That surprised me then, but now that I look more deeply into Kirk, I'm less surprised. He was way more substantial than I ever thought, and that’s an indictment on me as a journalist. I need to own that. But what prompted the mention then, and I think that’s proved completely correct, judging from the outpouring we’ve seen.

BAKER: I don't really know what made me mention Charlie Kirk in that moment. Certainly. As soon as he was killed, that came right back to me, that we had had that interview, and that I had mentioned him as one of the potential heirs to James Dobson. And I think that what I would say is my wife has really been She's a doctor. She's not been very interested in politics for most of her life, and the last year, she started to pay attention, and I noticed that she was talking about Charlie Kirk, and I thought about him as somebody who's just kind of a hard edged political figure, but she seemed to think of him more as a Christian and as somebody with more depth and substance. So I started to look at it, and I think that that's what brought him to mind in that moment. And of course, I think that we have realized, looking back at some of the things that he's been saying, that he was much more ardent about witnessing to his faith and encouraging people to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. And so I think that I just had a growing awareness of his increased spiritual maturity, and it brought him to mind.

MAST: Hunter Baker is a political scientist and provost at North Greenville University. Hunter, thank you.

BAKER: Thank you.

NICK EICHER, HOST: Up next, World Tour.

Last week in Nepal, a social media ban sparked violent protests. Days later, parliament lay in ashes and a new prime minister took the reins following an online poll. What’s behind the whiplash?

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Washington Producer Harrison Watters wrote this story, and WORLD’s Global Desk Chief Jenny Lind Schmitt brings it to us.

JENNY LIND SCHMITT: Young people in Nepal have been unhappy for a while. High inflation, low education, and few job opportunities have left many Nepalis looking for the exit.

MOHAN BHATT: We have around seven, 8 million young people in Nepal, and mostly, you know, they want to they are going abroad to work, to educate themselves for anything.

Mohan Bhatt is a pastor in Nepalgunj, near the country’s border with India. He says Nepal’s political leaders have long been more concerned about their own power than the needs of its citizens.

Over the past few years, young people across southeast Asia have protested their governments, and some have ended up with new ones.

BHATT: Same thing happened in Bangledesh. Same thing happened like this in Sri Lanka and in Indonesia, you know.

The spark came last week, when Communist Prime Minister K. P. Oli and his government began enforcing a social media registration rule. The goal was to force social media platforms to give the Nepali government more power to moderate content. South Asia analyst Michael Kugelman says the law would have done more than that.

KUGELMAN: Most protesters and many observers believe that the government was essentially using this idea of more effective regulation of social media as a pretext to essentially crack down on online speech.

A handful of companies, including TikTok, agreed to the new rule. Most did not. And on September 7th, the government blocked access to twenty-six social media platforms, including YouTube, LinkedIn, and WhatsApp.

KUGELMAN: Facebook, for example, is by far the most social media, the most popular social media platform in Nepal. It was taken down.

The next day, the streets of Nepal’s capital Kathmandu were filled with smoke and thousands of angry protestors.

SOUND: [Violent protests]

Police turned water cannons and tear gas on the waves of protestors, and later fired live ammunition, killing 19 and injuring hundreds more.

By midnight, the government reversed course—unblocking social media. But protests continued. The next day, rioters set fire to the homes of government officials, and burned the Parliament building. While the military struggled to contain the situation, Prime Minister Oli assessed his options, and resigned.

With many fires still burning, protest groups met online in the messaging app Discord to discuss next steps.

SOUND: [DISCORD LIVESTREAM]

More than 100,000 people joined the livestream over several days. Organizers took a poll and agreed to endorse former Supreme Court Chief Justice Sushila Karki to lead the interim government. Here’s Kugelman again.

KUGELMAN: As a justice, she was really big on curbing corruption, and that suggests that some of these vested interests in the political class and Nepal could find themselves vulnerable to steps that she might want to take.

But by Friday evening, the political parties and Nepal’s president agreed to install Karki as the new Prime Minister.

SOUND: [Ceremony]

Shortly after taking office, Prime Minister Karki promised to schedule new elections in six months. A stark contrast to Bangladesh, where the interim government only recently scheduled elections for February, after more than a year in power.

KUGELMAN: But in Nepal, you've got a much clearer time frame and a much clearer path to a formal transition, so hopefully that will portend stability.

Even so, stability will require more than new leaders. Pastor Bhatt says government offices across Nepal lay in ruins following the protests.

BHATT: All the local mayor office, local government, registration office, passport office. And we have lost very much valuable documents.

Pastor Bhatt runs two orphanages in his city, and he says a child welfare officer told him that many important government records were destroyed.

BHATT: We cannot save even one document is fully burned out every offices.

One document not destroyed was Nepal’s constitution, and it prevents Nepal’s nearly 30 million citizens from directly electing their leaders. Bhatt says that’s an obstacle to many of the youth protestors’ goals.

BHATT: That means we have to change the constitution. Otherwise, it's not possible. The same people will come again, same political party.

As Prime Minister Karki appoints members of her cabinet to lead Nepal, Pastor Bhatt says the Christians that make up only a tiny minority in Nepal are putting their trust in a higher authority.

BHATT: Pray for the stability of our this new system, and also God may give the right heart to the people, those who will be in this interim government… and Nepal needs God more over anything.

That’s this week’s World Tour, I’m Jenny Lind Schmitt.

NICK EICHER, HOST: In Germany, “ding-dong-ditch” is known as a Klingelstreich — a doorbell prank. But this culprit turned out to be pretty slippery, even though his getaway came at a literal snail’s pace.

No evidence showed up on security cams, so residents called the Polizei to investigate. And guess what they found?

OFFICER: They discovered a slug that had crawled up the house façade and triggered the automatic bell sensor.

The officer explains they discovered a slug crawling up the façade and tripping the automatic bell sensor.

Oozing its way across the panel, it set off doorbells again and again. No charges were filed — though sooner or later this prankster’s going to learn that one dash of salt will end his slimy career.

It’s The World and Everything in It.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Today is Wednesday, September 17th.

Thank you for turning to WORLD Radio to help start your day.

Good morning. I’m Lindsay Mast.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher.

Coming next on The World and Everything in It: Faith and fame.

You might know the Savannah Bananas for their outrageous stunts—we covered that side of the story last week. But this week, we’re considering what happens when baseball’s biggest entertainers start asking if all the fun and fame are enough. For some Bananas teammates, the answer took them down an unexpected path.

MAST: What began as quiet conversations among teammates soon turned into something much bigger—something they couldn’t keep to themselves.

AUDIO: [Sound from outside the stadium, Hey! Go Bananas!]

It’s a common sight outside Historic Grayson Stadium in Savannah, Georgia: a mass of people waiting for an encounter with the wildly popular Savannah Bananas. The team’s league plays a version of baseball they call Bananaball. It’s built for excitement.

ANNOUNCER: That ball is annihilated! RobertAnthony Cruz, walk off home run!!!

The players are both professional athletes and entertainers.

ANNOUNCER: You are watching Bananaball live on ESPN. The greatest show in sports takes over Fenway for a second straight year…

As a result, the league has sold out major league stadiums two summers in a row. Owner Jesse Cole is famous in marketing circles for leveraging stunts to attract attention. Whatever is normal, he says do the opposite. Here he is on the ACQ2 podcast talking about some things he tried out with a previous team.

JESSE COLE, OWNER: I just said, let’s get crazy. We started doing grandma beauty pageants, dig to China night where we actually buried a certificate to China in the infield dirt, and after the game we had everyone dig to China.

HOST: Like an actual trip to China?

COLE: Yeah, but it was just a one-way flight to China.

We offered George Bush after his term was over an internship with us. We're going to have a host family, a stipend.

So we just started doing everything to create attention.”

Similar stunts with the Bananas worked too. The league attracts millions of fans… so many, it’s hard to even get a ticket to a game. But the Christian players in the league—like Catcher Bill LeRoy—were finding that the fame was empty.

LEROY: If that's what we're constantly looking for is the next high, is the next, the next fun thing to do, or the next? If that's all we're chasing in life, we're doomed, that stuff gets old no matter what you do.

He wasn’t alone. Other players in the league also wanted something deeper.

MEADOWS: Three years ago, I was looking for things in the wrong places, whether it was going out and drinking every night, partying like a rock star…

Outfielder D.R. Meadows:

MEADOWS: And that wasn't, that wasn't how I wanted to live. That wasn’t me. The Lord has worked in my life more than I could have imagined.

So, the players looked for a way to pursue their faith together. That turned into a Bible study. They started with a handful of players, but within months, 40 of the league’s roughly 100 players started coming.

As the studies grew, they began considering something new. What if they opened it up to even more people—including fans.

Bananas outfielder RobertAnthony Cruz:

CRUZ: We started praying, okay, like God, if you want us to, let us know, if you want us to take this outside of what we already have.

But going public raised new questions. Would worship nights look like just another Bananaball marketing spectacle?

CRUZ: We don't want it to be performative. We don't want it to seem insincere when we are sharing our faith.

And they do worry about what might be motivating the fans coming to these events—maybe they’re just coming for an autograph.

BRIDGES: It makes us want to shut stuff down...

Player Noah Bridges says the only way around that is to hope that maybe the fans would hear something that would change them.

BRIDGES: So if they're coming here with a different heart posture, we pray that God, you take care of it, we're just here for one reason, that's just to exemplify you. You take care of the rest.

Catcher Bill Leroy agrees. He says they can only worry about their own motivations, despite what it may look like from the outside:

LEROY: We started this just because we needed the gospel, like, it's, like it's we're and we're sharing this 100% like, we don't want your money. We want something that's just like, it's so good to us at our core that we want other people to have the same thing.

And he says that’s helped clarify his mission and insists it’s no stunt.

LEROY: My job here is not to play ball. My job is to spread the Gospel, like with the gift of all of this, all of this that I'm doing is a gift from God.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Today is Wednesday, September 17th. Good morning! This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Lindsay Mast.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher. Finally today, WORLD commentator Janie B Cheaney says there’s a beast within each of us that’s ready to pounce.

JANIE B CHEANEY: Anger may be the most powerful human emotion. For that reason, and mercifully, it’s hard to maintain. Few of us have the energy to stay boiling mad for long. But given the number of angry people online, I wonder if they're taking some kind of emotional steroids. If I had to choose the distinguishing public vice of our age, it would be not lust but rage.

Righteous indignation has its place and time. God himself righteously feels and expresses wrath but graciously holds back for the sake of Christ and his church. On the other hand, human anger is the first sin specifically identified as sin. It led to the first murder. “Why are you angry, and why is your face fallen?” God asked Cain in Genesis chapter 4. “If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.”

God seems to be offering a choice. The terminology is striking: “Sin is crouching at the door.” Not standing upright and knocking like an honest man. Not picking the lock or peeking through the keyhole. The image is that of a wild beast ready to spring. “Its desire is for you. It wants to eat you alive, Cain; swallow you whole. You're on the brink of something that you can't even imagine yet. You don't know what you're capable of, but unless you throttle that beast right now, you soon will.”

Cain did not throttle the beast and soon found out what he was capable of, when his brother's mangled body lay ominously still in its own blood. Sin got through the door—but where was it to begin with? I used to imagine it outside: sin is trying to get in, to devour us. But knowing what we do about ourselves and human history, the metaphor works better the other way: sin is panting to get out. It doesn’t whisper in our ear, like a cartoon devil; it hammers in our heart, coils in our stomach, churns in our gut—let me out! You can watch it happening when your toddler throws his first tantrum.

I’m not talking about Charlie Kirk’s murderer, whose gut-level motivation may have been rage. Or could have been the soul-sucking emptiness of nihilism. I’m talking about us, and how we respond.

John Podhoretz, editor of Commentary magazine, wrote an interesting post about how all of us have murderous thoughts, but generally restrained them until the advent of social media. It goes back to Adam, who chose to let sin in. Since then, all his descendants struggle to keep it contained. It’s justified to feel anger at unjustifiable acts of violence, but “in your anger, do not sin.” Here’s the situation, as God laid it out for Cain: will you allow this inner beast to overpower you, or will you control it? There’s no choice about where sin resides; we know it’s in our hearts. But will we be its master, or its meat?

I’m Janie B. Cheaney.

CLOSING

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