The World and Everything in It: September 12, 2024

PREROLL: The World and Everything in It is made possible by listeners like you. I'm Gary Starbuck, pastor of Open Door Bible Church in Midtown, Memphis, Tennessee, where I've served for the past 38 years. I hope you enjoy today's program.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Good morning! 

The teenager in Georgia suspected of shooting up a high school was charged with murder, and so was his father.

MADEIRA: This basically recognizes that the parents did something that was criminally negligent

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: We’ll have a report on the liability of parents for their children’s actions. Also, telling the truth on social media about men in women’s private spaces now faces new challenges. And Christians on the run in Mexico. And WORLD Commentator Cal Thomas on Tuesday’s presidential debate.

REICHARD: It’s Thursday, September 12th. This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Mary Reichard.

BROWN: And I’m Myrna Brown. Good morning!

REICHARD: Up next, Kent Covington with today’s news.

SOUND: [Weather]

KENT COVINGTON, NEWS ANCHOR: Hurricane Francine » Hurricane Francine slammed coastal Louisiana last night as a Category 2 with sideways rain bending trees with winds about 100 miles per hour.

Saint Mary Parish Sheriff Gary Driskell said officials have been preparing for the cleanup.

DRISKELL: For days now, we've been prepping for the storm, getting different things together; chainsaws, so that we can clear off roads because if they're closed, we can't get to people that need help. We have high water vehicles, boats, you name it.

The governors of Louisiana and Mississippi have both declared states of emergency with many local officials having ordered evacuations of low-lying areas.

With downed trees and power lines, New Orleans Fire Chief Roman Nelson urged residents to stay out of harm’s way.

NELSON: If at all possible, stay at home and help us to do our job.

The storm is forecast to drop rain on much of the southeast in the coming days and stretching as far north as the Ohio and Tennessee valleys.

Typhoon Yagi » Meantime in Vietnam, a flash flood swept away a hamlet in a northern region killing 22 people with dozens missing. That pushes the official death toll from Typhoon Yagi well over 150.

Local media said floodwaters gushing down from a mountain buried a hamlet with 35 families in mud and debris.

Yagi made landfall Saturday as the strongest typhoon to hit the Southeast Asian country in decades.

Speaker on Johnson funding bill » House Speaker Mike Johnson pulled back a stopgap government funding bill shortly before a planned vote on Wednesday.

JOHNSON:  No vote today because we're in the consensus building, uh, business here in Congress with small majorities. That's what you do.

That speaker conceding that he’s still working to lock down the support of more Republicans.

JOHNSON: We're having thoughtful conversations, family conversations within the Republican conference, and I believe we'll get there.

Johnson and other top Republicans want to tie government funding to a bill that would require voters to show proof of citizenship before casting a ballot.

Democrats argue it's already illegal for noncitizens to vote in federal elections and that the bill adds unnecessary barriers to voting.

Aid for Ukraine's energy grid » The United States and Britain pledged nearly $1.5 billion in combined additional aid to Ukraine Wednesday during a visit to Kyiv by their top diplomats.

British Foreign Secretary David Lammy:

LAMMY:  This is the first time in well over a decade that a Secretary of State from the U. S. and a Foreign Secretary in the U. K. have traveled together, and that is to reiterate our complete support for the Ukrainian struggle. We come here at a critical moment.

Secretary of State Tony Blinken announced more than $300 million dollars in new funding to help repair Ukraine’s energy grid amid Russian attacks on civilian infrastructure.

BLINKEN: As we're meeting here today, we're again seeing Putin dust off his winter playbook, targeting Ukrainian energy and electricity systems to weaponize the cold against the Ukrainian people.

Ukrainian officials also used the occasion to renew their pleas to use Western-provided missiles against targets deeper inside Russia.

Blinken said he listened intently and will take that message back to the White House.

Mexico judicial overhaul » The Mexican government has moved one step closer to a massive controversial overhaul of its courts. WORLD’s Paul Butler has more.

PAUL BUTLER: The Mexican Senate on Wednesday approved legislation that would make nearly every seat on the bench an elected position. Nearly all of the country’s more than 7,000 judges and magistrates would no longer be appointed, but would instead have to win a popular vote.

Critics say the move will politicize the courts and allow less experienced judges in important positions.

SOUND: [Protesters]

Hundreds of protesters stormed the Senate Tuesday night in an attempt to thwart the vote, but to no avail.

The Senate approved the changes by a 2-to-1 margin.

The lower house of Congress passed the plan last week.

Both outgoing President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador and President-elect Claudia Sheinbaum support the measure.

But before the legislation can take effect, it must be ratified by a majority of Mexico’s 32 states.

For WORLD, I’m Paul Butler.

Inflation » U.S. inflation continued to cool in August, hitting a three-year low. Consumer prices rose 2.5% from a year ago, down from July's 2.9% increase. That marks the fifth straight month of slowing price growth.

The latest numbers pave the way for the Federal Reserve to cut interest rates for the first time since 2020. The Fed is expected to lower rates by a one-quarter of a 1 percent.

I’m Kent Covington.

Straight ahead: parental responsibility after a school shooting. Plus, displaced Christians in Mexico.

This is The World and Everything in It.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: It’s Thursday the 12th of September.

Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Mary Reichard.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown.

Up next, responsibility for a school shooting.

Last week, Georgia law enforcement charged 14-year-old Colt Gray with allegedly killing four students at Apalachee High School in Georgia using a rifle his father Colin bought for him. Authorities arrested him and his father the next day.

REICHARD: This is the second time a court has held a parent liable for his or her child’s mass shooting. Earlier this year, a jury convicted Jennifer and James Crumbley of involuntary manslaughter and gave them ten years in prison after their son shot and killed four people at a Michigan high school.

BROWN: Does prosecuting parents for the acts of their children do much to help? Could laws have prevented these mass shootings?

WORLD Radio’s Mary Muncy reports.

SOUND: [COURT ROOM]

MARY MUNCY: The Georgia shooter’s father, Colin Gray, appeared in court last week rocking back and forth in his chair as he answered the judge's questions.

FOX, COLIN GRAY HEARING, JUDGE: How far did you go in school?

COLIN GRAY: Eleventh grade, GED.

The judge informed Gray of his rights and then read him the charges.

FOX, COLIN GRAY HEARING: You’re currently charged with two counts of felony murder in the second degree. You’re charged with four counts of felony involuntary manslaughter. You’re charged with eight counts of felony cruelty to children.

The maximum penalty for all of the charges combined is 180 years in prison. Gray has not yet entered a plea.

Prosecutors say Gray should have known better than to buy his son a gun because of a police visit last year.

AP, BODY CAM FOOTAGE OFFICER: Are you Colin?

GRAY: I am.

OFFICER: You want to step out where we can talk real quick?

In May of 2023, the FBI sent a tip to the Jackson County Sheriff's office. They said someone at Gray’s previous address made a school shooting threat on Discord, a messaging platform popular with gamers and other online interest groups.

That’s why officers showed up on Gray’s front porch. The sheriff's office released body cam footage of their visit this week.

OFFICER: Do you have weapons in the house?

GRAY: I do.

In the video, Gray says his son can access his guns but none of them are loaded.

GRAY: We do a lot of shooting. We do a lot of dear hunting. He shot his first dear this year. He knows the seriousness of weapons and what they can do and to use them and not use them.

The officers ask Gray about the threats on Discord.

GRAY: I don’t know anything about him saying — like that and I’m going to be mad as — if he did. And then all the guns will go away and they won’t be accessible to him.

He says they’ve talked about school shootings and that his son is getting picked on at school. Then he brings his son out to the porch.

OFFICER: Do you use Discord?

COLT GRAY: Discord?

OFFICER: Yes sir.

COLT GRAY: I used to, I don’t have it anymore.

The high schooler says he hasn’t used it in a few months and that he would never threaten to shoot up a school.

OFFICER: He’s telling me he didn’t. Telling me he can’t remember anything like that. And I take you at your word, okay? You look me in the eye and you tell me, that’s what you’re telling me, I got no choice but to take you at your word right now, okay?

COLT GRAY: Yes sir.

Officials couldn’t prove Gray’s son posted the threatening message, so all they could do was keep an eye out.

In another state, this may have been enough for officers to pursue an Extreme Risk Protection Order, or ERPO. These are also known as Red Flag laws… And they allow officials to confiscate someone’s guns for a short time if they might be a threat to themself or others.

Amy Swearer with the Heritage Foundation says the laws are meant to address people who aren’t at a point where they should be locked up… but they might still be dangerous.

AMY SWEARER: It's giving people who are seeing someone in their lives that is becoming a danger to themselves or others, but who haven't yet reached that legal threshold, giving them some sort of intermediate option to actually intervene.

So far, about half of U.S. states have them. Swearer says it’s hard to quantify whether the laws have prevented mass shootings since they’re so rare, but there are individual examples. There is also research showing that they’ve prevented suicides.

Since last week, the shooter’s family has spoken to the media about what they say was a stressful home life.

His grandfather told CNN that he lived in a hostile environment with his father.

Public records show his mother was arrested last year for theft, drugs, and trafficking. In Facebook posts that have since been deleted, she said her husband abused her and her Facebook profile says they’re separated.

Swearer says it’s hard to tell whether any of these things could have been cause for police to issue an ERPO… or whether the family would have brought one themselves. But that may not have mattered anyway.

SWEARER: This investigation happened in May of 2023 which is well over a year ago, at this point – almost going on a year and a half. Most red flag laws expire. I mean, of course they can be renewed, but the initial ones expire after six months, or after a year.

Then seven months after police visited the Grays, Colin bought his son an AR-15-style rifle for Christmas. That was the gun he used in the shooting.

Swearer doesn’t know whether a Red Flag law would have stopped Gray from buying it since it’s unclear how an ERPO could apply to a family member’s firearms.

SWEARER: That doesn't strike me as the type of parent necessarily, who is not going to do the same thing, regardless of a Red Flag law.

But is that behavior irresponsible enough that the father should share in his son’s blame?

JODY MADEIRA: It was illegal for Colin to purchase this for Colt in the first place.

Jody Madeira is a professor at Indiana University Maurer School of Law. Federal law prohibits a minor from buying a rifle, and Georgia state law follows that. The state doesn’t prohibit a minor from owning a rifle, but people can be charged with criminally reckless behavior that leads to involuntary manslaughter which could include giving a dangerous person or a minor a gun.

MADEIRA: If the law provides criminal charges that could be brought and prosecutors don't charge them, that's another problem.

Madeira says it’s like someone buying a gun for a felon. They’re typically not allowed to own firearms so if the felon commits a crime with the gun, the person who bought it isn’t an accomplice, but they are liable.

She says it’s similar to the Michigan shooter’s parents too.

MADEIRA: This basically recognizes that the parents did something that was criminally negligent. You know, they both engaged in criminally reckless behavior that made them, in part, culpable for these shootings, because, arguably, without that firearm, these children would not have committed the shootings that they did.

While charging a parent has historically been outside of the usual bounds, Madeira thinks that more states are going to start considering it.

MADEIRA: The question is going to be, was there any basis where parents could have known that their child had a mental health condition, and if so, did they do something that we would regard as reckless or even, you know, criminally negligent, like get them a firearm.

Right now, Colt Gray is being held without bond and his father didn’t request one. Colt is being tried as an adult, with the maximum penalty of life in prison. Their preliminary hearings are scheduled for December.

Reporting for WORLD, I’m Mary Muncy.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Coming up next on The World and Everything in It: protecting women’s sports…and private spaces.

Earlier this year, a young woman posted a video to Facebook in which she confronted a man who was using the women’s restroom. The man was wearing women’s clothing and identified himself as a woman – but he was clearly a man.

MCNABB: I pay a lot of money to be safe in the bathroom.

PERSON: Me too. Excuse me.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Since then, Facebook’s oversight board has announced it is reviewing the company’s content policy. It’s asking the public to comment on whether the woman was wrong for calling the man out and if the video should be classified as hate speech and removed.

Here with more on the story and the ongoing debate about men in women’s spaces is WORLD reporter Travis Kircher.

TRAVIS KIRCHER: When athlete Riley Gaines saw Facebook’s response to the video posted by college student Payton McNabb, she was discouraged, but not surprised.

GAINES: I can't even tell you how, how much that messes with your head as a young I mean, 18, 19, 20 year old girl, but it's effective, and they know that.

Gaines is a former member of the University of Kentucky NCAA swim team. In 2022, she was forced to compete against a male swimmer who identified as female. She also had to share a changing room with him.

GAINES: I mean that used to be correctly described as as sexual harassment, but now, not only is it, does it go unchecked, it's it's seemingly celebrated. It's celebrated by the NCAA. It's celebrated by the Biden Harris administration. It's celebrated oftentimes in the corporate world. We were told that we were the problems if we oppose this. We were the ones who, who were told to seek counseling services or to re-educate ourselves and learn how to be kind and learn how to be inclusive.

I spoke with Gaines after Facebook announced the policy review. She says while many accuse college student Payton McNabb of bullying the man in the bathroom by filming him, there’s more to McNabb’s story.

GAINES: …something that a lot of people don't know about this video is that Payton McNabb is the same young girl who, just two years ago in a volleyball game, was severely and permanently injured by a male player posing as a woman who jumped over the net, spikes the ball, hits Payton in the face. She's immediately knocked unconscious, before coming back around. Even still to this day, she is partially paralyzed from that hit. Her vision is impaired, her memory is impaired, and then to be faced with a male in her bathroom, a different male entirely on her college campus. I mean, it breaks my heart, and people have the audacity to say that this isn't really happening.

The Meta Oversight Board’s announcement about the public review says the company selected McNabb’s case and another one about an athlete in order to—in their words—“assess whether Meta’s approach to moderating discussions around gender identity respects users’ freedom of expression and the rights of transgender and non-binary people.” Elsewhere, the board has said it seeks to remove obstacles to  “Women, non-binary, and trans people…exercising their freedom of expression on social media.” But what about when members of those groups disagree about what counts as hate speech?

GAINES: To be very clear, hate speech is not just speech you hate. It seems to be that the other side of this debate is labeling stances that I have taken, stances that Peyton McNabb has taken as hateful, as bigoted, as transphobic, but but to be very, very clear. Rather than being against something, we are standing for something, and what we are standing for is women. Again, it's for privacy, it's for safety, it's for equal opportunity. We are standing for biological reality, for truth. That, that is not hate speech.

And the conversation isn’t limited to so-called “misgendering,” or when someone describes a person according to their biological sex when that person is claiming to be something else. Gaines says the language matters.

GAINES: I won't use the phrase trans woman, because I think it implies that I would believe that that these males who identify as women are, in some part, actually women. No, they are just males. They are men. They are boys, but, but they cannot be women. Even biological woman, I have a problem with because, again, I think it's admit, admittance that that there's an unbiological alternative to being a woman.

Right now, much of the debate is focused on new rules from the Education Department that guide how schools implement Title IX.

GAINES: Your speech is compelled under this new rewrite, and so you would be forced, if you're a student or you're a teacher or professor or a coach, you would be forced to use biologically incorrect pronouns. They took a policy enacted, implemented 52 years ago, 37 words in its in its original implementation, again, very, brief, short paragraph, and they created this new policy that's now 1500 over 1550 pages long. Clearly, there's something they're trying to hide and get away with in there.

The new rules are currently blocked in 26 states while courts review legal challenges. But female students in other states will likely continue to face competition from males in their sports. Gaines says it’s one thing for former athletes like her to speak up, but it’s another thing for parents and their daughters to take a stand.

GAINES: I think the most effective way to say, “No, enough is enough” is by not participating in the farce at all. So if you know you have to compete against a boy, whether that's a team sport, whether that's track and field or swimming, what have you, get on get on the block. But when the gun blows, don't jump in the pool, don't don't jump off the starting block. That's, I think, and especially if you can do it in unity, have other girls who are willing to participate in what I would effectively call a boycott, which is kind of funny, given that the word boy is literally in the name, I think that's how you say, No, we won't allow this to continue happening.

The public comment period set by Facebook’s Oversight Board ends at midnight Pacific time tonight. After that, the company will consider changes to its content moderation policy that until now has allowed posts like McNabb’s to stay online.

But in the meantime, Gaines says now is the time for soul searching and action.

GAINES: We got here because we've done nothing. We've allowed ourselves to get here. So there's lots of fingers to point. As I’ve said, you can point a finger at the Biden administration. You can point a finger at these, these corporations who have allowed this, or at the courts who seemingly have activists as judges. But there's more fingers than that to be pointed. We can point a finger at ourselves.

Reporting for WORLD, I’m Travis Kircher.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: There’s no accounting for taste, they say.

Well, that point’s made in Northern Ireland last week, where local leaders unveiled a new statue of the late Queen Elizabeth II.

The piece joined statues put up last summer of her husband, the late Prince Phillip, and two of their corgis. Members of the town council gushed how it “captures Her Majesty in a dignified pose, reflecting her grace…” and suits its castle garden surroundings.

But local naysayers differ. “Looks more like Mrs. Doubtfire than our late Queen,” wrote one on social media. Another wrote: the “outfit they dressed her in looks like something a Chinese terracotta warrior would wear.”

And this zinger: “Oh, a lovely bronze statue of a complete stranger.”

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: I guess the whole affair is tarnished now.

REICHARD: It’s The World and Everything in It.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Today is Thursday, September 12th. Thank you for turning to WORLD Radio to help start your day. Good morning. I’m Myrna Brown.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: And I’m Mary Reichard. Coming next on The World and Everything in It: religious persecution in Mexico.

More than a hundred evangelicals had to flee from their homes in Hidalgo, Mexico back in April after threats of violence from indigenous villagers. It’s been more than four months now yet there’s been no agreement to end their displacement.

BROWN: How is the Mexican government reacting, and how will this affect future cases of religious persecution in the country? WORLD’s Kristen Flavin has the story.

AUDIO: [Tour of Hidalgo]

KRISTEN FLAVIN: The mountainous state of Hidalgo, Mexico is a popular tourist destination. The indigenous peoples in the area retain much of their traditional culture. But a conflict has been brewing here for years as Protestant Christians refuse to participate in the ritualistic festivals of their village.

Last April, indigenous villagers seized the homes and property of dozens of Protestant families in Hidalgo. Weeks later, the locals charged the evangelical community a fine of roughly $40,000 U.S. dollars to get their properties back. In a town where almost everyone works in agriculture or cattle ranching, that amount seems impossible.

AUDIO: [Sound of prayer]

In a remote town where almost everyone works in agriculture or cattle ranching, that amount seems impossible.

PRAYER: [Nuestras propiedades, nuestras casas…]

With no other place to go, Pastor Rogelio Hernández Baltazar and his Great Commission Baptist Church relocated to a temporary shelter. There, they continue waiting for Mexican authorities to take action on their behalf.

Pablo Vargas is the Mexico National Director for Christian Solidarity Worldwide—or CSW. After almost 20 years addressing cases of religious persecution in the country, he believes to have found the root cause behind them all.

VARGAS: Cuando nosotros empezamos a investigar teníamos una lista de alrededor de 120 casos, pero poco a poco empezamos a entender que el problema de México era un problema cultural.

TRANSLATION: When we began investigating, we had a list of about 120 cases, but little by little we began to understand that the issue with Mexico was a cultural problem.

In Mexico, the Law of Uses and Customs allows for autonomous government among indigenous communities. Although not the law of the land, this clause is often used by locals to exploit religious minorities and override the religious freedom theoretically upheld in the Mexican Constitution. According to a 2022 study from CSW, more than 90% of complaints involving religious freedom abuses in Mexico go unpunished.

Baltazar’s church had faced multiple episodes of persecution since their conversion to Protestantism in 2015. But when locals threatened to assault their wives and daughters, the evangelicals decided it was time to go.

Baltazar’s assistant Nicolás Solorzano thanks God for providing the temporary shelter and the support of nearby evangelical churches. But this does not change the difficult aspects of living away from home.

SOLÓRZANO: Hemos estado ya durante casi cuatro meses eh albergados en el auditorio, en las condiciones, eh, en malas condiciones, porque nos, nos tenemos que dormir ahí en el piso y cuando eh tiempos de que llueve pues el agua se gotea ahí en la lámina y trasmina el agua ahí, este, en en las paredes.

TRANSLATION: We have been housed for almost four months now, uh, in bad conditions, because we, we have to sleep on the floor and when, uh, it rains, water drips on the metal roof over there and leaks on the, uh, into the walls.

AUDIO: [Thunder/heavy rain on roof]

The 160 displaced Christians have managed to live for more than 100 days at a sports complex in Hidalgo with only four bathrooms to share.

State officials had so far dismissed the crisis as a social skirmish of little importance. But Pablo Vargas has been following the negotiations closely, and he says the wait might be finally over.

VARGAS: Ahora el gobierno del estado ha enviado a una persona específica y a comisionado para que arregle el problema. / Entonces ahora ya hay un deseo real del gobierno del estado después de varia presión social y mediática para que ellos busquen una solución.

TRANSLATION: Now the state government has sent a specific person commissioned to fix the conflict. So now there’s a real desire from the state government to act after much social and media pressure to look for a solution.

It is likely that the displaced evangelicals will still have to pay some fines to reclaim their homes, but the terms of their return could be better than expected.

At first, local authorities fined the evangelicals individually just over $3,500 U.S. dollars. After a series of talks, the number decreased to just over $250 per person.

Baltazar and his church already sent their own proposal, agreeing to pay no more than 5 years of fines to the local indigenous community. A final agreement is expected to come in a matter of days. If successful, their proposal could set a favorable precedent for future cases of religious persecution in Hidalgo. But this would mark just the beginning of potential religious freedom reforms across other indigenous groups in Mexico.

VARGAS: O sea, vemos que hay un interés por parte del Gobierno del Estado, pero como les decía al principio de la entrevista, es muy difícil convencer o cambiar la forma de pensar de una comunidad a la que por años le dijiste tienes razón y ahora le estás diciendo no siempre tienes razón. Esa simple forma de pensar es muy difícil porque ninguna de las personas que está ahí puede entender, reconocer y aplicar la libertad de creencia y religión. Así que, en mi perspectiva, aunque se logre un acuerdo, va a seguir. Va a haber mucho trabajo por hacer.

TRANSLATION: In other words, we now see that there’s interest on the part of the state government. But as I said at the start of the interview, it’s difficult to convince or change the mindset of a community who for years you reaffirmed, and now you tell them “you’re not always right.” That way of thinking is very difficult to remove because none of these people can understand, recognize, and apply freedom of religion or belief. So, in my perspective, even if a deal is reached, this will continue. There will still be a lot of work to do.

And in the meantime, the evangelical community continues to worship and wait on the Lord.

For WORLD's Carlos Páez who wrote and reported this story, I'm Kristen Flavin.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Today is Thursday, September 12th. Good morning! This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Mary Reichard.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown. Up next, WORLD commentator Cal Thomas analyzes Tuesday night’s debate between Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump.

DEBATE CLIP: I want to begin tonight with the issue voters repeatedly say is their number one issue, and that is the economy and the cost of living in this country…

CAL THOMAS: You could see where this was headed from the start when debate co-host David Muir asked Vice President Kamala Harris the question Ronald Reagan asked Americans to ponder when he debated with Jimmy Carter in October, 1980: “Are you better off than you were four years ago?”

A confident Harris would have answered “yes,” but knowing the polls show a large majority of Americans would answer “no,” Harris pivoted to a personal story and pivoted again to how much more she would “invest” (code word for spend) while again trashing “billionaires” as Democrats like to do in their promotion of envy, greed, and entitlement.

What viewers saw was a version of the “new Nixon.” Senator Bernie Sanders, the Vermont Independent-Socialist, was right when he suggested Harris has moved more to the center to win votes, but if elected will return to her “progressive” ways.

Overnight conversions may have some credibility when it comes to religion, depending on one’s consistency, but in politics it appears to be pandering to voters. How many times have we seen politicians run one way and govern another?

Let’s start with the optics. It was good they shook hands at the start, but Harris was far more positive, energetic and optimistic than Trump. Trump never looked at Harris and had a dour expression on his face throughout. Harris sometimes appeared condescending and occasionally had an expression like you would have if you thought someone was sad and pathetic. Trump never smiled. Harris did.

As for substance, David Muir and Linsey Davis sometimes fact-checked Trump, but never Harris. They especially did not ask Harris if she still wants to impose price controls on everyday items, like food and gasoline, when they have never worked. That was a missed opportunity.

There were no questions about the record $35 trillion debt or Trump’s suggestion of an outside auditor to trim the size and cost of the federal government. Other than eliminating the Department of Education, where would he begin? And since Social Security and Medicare are the main drivers of the debt, how would they reform these programs before they run out of money?

Trump scored on Afghanistan and the unwieldy withdrawal that caused the death of 13 service members. Harris scored when Trump talked about crime being up, much of it he said due to migrants. She retorted “that’s rich coming from someone who has been found guilty” of 34 felonies with more trials involving national security possibly to come.

Trump got in the “I’m talking” line he thought Harris wanted to use against him, along with the “are you better off” zinger borrowed from Reagan. Harris scored by accusing Trump of cuddling up to dictators who flatter his ego.

I thought Harris was weak on Israel and Gaza. She repeated the stale line about a “two-state solution,” which is only a solution for Israel’s enemies who have vowed to destroy the Jewish state. Trump claimed Harris “hates Israel,” without evidence. Trump scored when he pointed out her many flips on issues, most of which are recent, including doing away with private health insurance, causing one to question her sincerity.

Trump closed by asking the obvious question: Why hasn’t Harris done in three and a half years what she promises to do if elected president? Harris closed with another obvious statement: “We have different visions for the future.”

That’s why there should be a second debate. A top Harris campaign official seemed to agree to one in October. The public deserves to hear more. I’d call this one a plus for Harris when it came to image and a plus for Trump on issues. In other words, a draw.

I’m Cal Thomas.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Tomorrow: Andrew Walker joins us for Culture Friday. And, the newest installment of the God’s Not Dead movie franchise. We’ll have a review of In God We Trust. That and more tomorrow.

I’m Myrna Brown.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: And I’m Mary Reichard.

The World and Everything in It comes to you from WORLD Radio. WORLD’s mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates, and inspires.

The Bible records that: “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.” —John 1:6-8

Go now in grace and peace.

WORLD Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of WORLD Radio programming is the audio record.