The World and Everything in It: October 5, 2023

PREROLL: The World and Everything in It is made possible by listeners like me. Good morning. My name is Anna Stroud, and I work as an administrative assistant at a local accounting firm here in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I listen to The World and Everything in It while proofing financial statements. I hope you enjoy today's program.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Good morning! A megachurch pastor defends his stand on same-sex attraction.

STANLEY: Most gay men or women, you know, they were a kid with a terrifying secret. And they asked God to change them. And God did not answer their prayer.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Also Israel’s Supreme Court considers a change that’s riled many people. What’s going on and why does it matter? We have a report.

Plus, pro-life convictions in the crucible.

AUDIO: Okay, we, we know what we say we believe. Are we going to live out our faith in this way?

And WORLD commentator Cal Thomas on what the U.S. can learn from the U.K.’s border problems.

REICHARD: It’s Thursday, October 5th. This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Mary Reichard.

BUTLER: And I’m Myrna Brown. Good morning!

REICHARD: Time for news. Here’s Kent Covington

KENT COVINGTON, NEWS ANCHOR: House adjournment » The Capitol’s House chamber is silent and empty this morning as members consider next steps.

The House adjourned after lawmakers voted to oust a sitting speaker for the first time ever.

Republican Congressman Garret Graves said Wednesday that with emotions running high that was probably for the best.

GRAVES: I think that they made the right decision by pressing pause for a minute. I think if we stayed in the room last night, and I’m not exaggerating, I think it probably would have devolved into a little bit of physical altercation in there. People are mad.

Eight House Republicans voted with most Democrats to remove Speaker Kevin McCarthy. That left a gaping void in the leadership structure of the GOP.

Speaker candidates » It’s unclear who will take up the speaker’s gavel. But some members are floating a surprising name for the job:

STEUBE: I think President Trump would unite the party around his agenda, the things that we need to do. And quite frankly, I think he is the best person situated to negotiate the issues that we need to face.

GOP Congressman Greg Steube heard there.

The Constitution does not stipulate that the speaker of the House has to be an elected member though some insist that there are legal arguments against a non-member filling the role.

For his part, Trump told reporters:

TRUMP: A lot of people have been calling me about speaker. All I can say is that we’ll do whatever is best for the country and for the Republican party.

But he said there are plenty of qualified leaders in the House already.

More likely candidates for the job include House Majority Leader Steve Scalise and Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan.

Biden student debt » Meantime, at the White House, President Biden announced another $9 billion dollars in new student debt relief.

Most of that will come from a restructuring of the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program.

BIDEN: By freeing millions of Americans from the crushing burden of student debt, it means they can go and get their lives in order.

The president says 125,000 people will be eligible.

Biden / Ukraine » Also on Wednesday, President Biden said it worries him that some lawmakers have soured on approving more money for Ukraine before fixing security concerns at home. A group of House conservatives say we should get control of our southern border first.

BIDEN: But I know that there are a majority of the members in the House and Senate in both parties who have said that they support funding Ukraine.

Biden says he’s planning a major speech soon to make the case as to why it is “critically important” to help Kyiv repel Russia’s invasion.

The president also said he may have—quote—“another means” … by which to provide support for Ukraine if Congress does not approve more funding. But he did not elaborate.

NATO military chief on Ukraine » NATO’s military chief is also sounding alarms about the need to renew support for Ukraine. WORLD’s Kristen Flavin has more.

KRISTEN FLAVIN: Admiral Rob Bauer is the head of NATO’s military committee. He warned that Ukrainian forces are running low on weapons systems and ammunition, saying “the bottom of the barrel is now visible.”

Speaking at a security forum in Warsaw, Bauer urged NATO allies to ramp up production.

Many analysts say Vladimir Putin’s strategy has been to try and win a war of attrition, hoping to outlast Western support for Ukraine’s military.

For WORLD, I’m Kristen Flavin.

SOUND: [People chanting]

Healthcare strike » Some 75,000 healthcare workers walked off the job Wednesday across the U.S.

Union workers at Kaiser Permanente declared a three-day strike. They’re demanding bigger paychecks, better benefits, and more staff.

Picketer: Sometimes we’re doing double work. We can't give them, our patients, the care that we really want to do and spend the time with them because we're short staffed.

Kaiser says all facilities will remain open thanks to temporary workers…and doctors are not walking out.

The strike will end Saturday. But union leaders say they’ll strike again next month, if its demands are unmet.

Kaiser says it’s a tough time for the entire sector, and that it already pays its workers better than its competitors do.

I'm Kent Covington.

Straight ahead: Andy Stanley responds to concerns about his LGBT church conference. Plus, into the valley of the shadow with a difficult pregnancy.

This is The World and Everything in It.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: It’s Thursday, the 5th of October, 2023.

You’re listening to WORLD Radio and we’re glad to have you along today. Good morning, I’m Mary Reichard.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown.

First up on The World and Everything in It, some evangelical pastors and churches are reconsidering Biblical sexuality.

STANLEY: If this is your first time with us, you came at a very unique, interesting time.

On Sunday, North Point Community Church’s lead pastor Andy Stanley gave his first sermon since speaking at the conference called Unconditional. The sermon was not live-streamed, but the audio included in this report was recorded by an attendee and uploaded to Soundcloud.

REICHARD: The conference was hosted last weekend at the church’s Alpharetta, Georgia campus by faith-based non-profit Embracing the Journey. The stated goal: support church parents and their gay and transgender children from what they call, the quieter middle space.

Stanley used his sermon to respond to criticism for being involved in the conference. He began by addressing an article written last month by WORLD Opinions Senior Editor Albert Mohler—who wrote that Stanley departs from Biblical Christianity.

ANDY STANLEY: I want to go on record and say I have never subscribed to his version of Biblical Christianity to begin with. His version, this version of Biblical Christianity is why people are leaving Christianity unnecessarily.

BROWN: Stanley defined Mohler’s version of Biblical Christianity as divisive lines drawn to keep people who experience same-sex attraction or transgender ideation out of the church, whereas Jesus “draws circles” to include them. Mohler responded this week on his podcast: The Briefing.

MOHLER: Indeed, Jesus did draw circles…But at the same time…Jesus drew many lines…He drew lines between the sheep and the goats with eternal significance…The question is where we faithfully draw the lines. Simply saying that it's conservative, fundamentalist evangelicals who draw lines, Jesus draws circles. That's not good enough.

Stanley identified Christians’ reliance on Scripture and prayer to guide their response to sexual sin as part of the problem. He provided emotional testimonies from people who claimed they found more help by turning to North Point’s resources. For nearly a decade before the Unconditional conference, Stanley has trained small group leaders on the topic. Speakers at the conference included two married homosexual men, who Stanley has turned to before to help his congregation understand what it's like for them.

STANLEY: You shouldn't be criticizing us, you should come and learn from us. They asked God to change them. And God did not answer their prayer. And now they feel confident…with their small group leader in church. We are restoring relationships. And we are literally saving lives.

REICHARD: Alan Shlemon is an author and speaker for Stand to Reason who attended the Unconditional conference. In an interview afterwards with Biola professor Sean McDowell, Shlemon agreed that some of the breakout sessions were beneficial. For instance, parents could learn about keeping a marriage together after a child comes out. But Shlemon said ultimately the positives were overshadowed by a ministry divorced from a Biblical theology and lacking in repentance from homosexual sin.

SHLEMON: They haven't even addressed the fundamental questions like, what is sex? What is marriage? They're not addressing these fundamental questions, because they don't believe these questions are fundamental to the conference. If I wanted to quietly mainstream pro-gay theology and transgender ideology into the evangelical church, I would build this conference…

BROWN: In Sunday’s message, Stanley claimed that North Point Community Church believes marriage is between a man and a woman, and that sex should be saved for marriage.

STANLEY: The gay attenders in our churches…expect that. They grew up on that…They prayed for that…

But Stanley went on to say that entering into a same-sex marriage is understandable, when God doesn’t seem to answer prayers for a traditional marriage…or when honoring Him with a celibate lifestyle is unsustainable.

Mohler called out Stanley’s unwillingness in his sermon to incorporate repentance from homosexual sin and obedience to Christ for sanctification.

MOHLER: The faithful church has nowhere to stand, but upon the authority of Christ as given to us, revealed to us in the Holy Scriptures which means we have nowhere to stand but on the scriptures…the scriptures are not unclear, the gospel is at stake, and so we had better be clear.

REICHARD: You can read more of Al Mohler’s response to the conference as well as WORLD Magazine reporter Mary Jackson’s coverage of the story online at wng.org. We’ve also included links in today’s show notes.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Coming up next on The World and Everything in It: Changing the rules for Israel’s judiciary.

SOUND: [Israeli voices in courtroom]

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Last month, Israel’s Supreme Court held the first hearings in a case that challenges measures passed by Israel’s legislature, the Knesset. 

Protestors and some of Israel’s leaders say the court needs to resist the prime minister’s attempts to undercut democracy, but Benjamin Netanyahu says his goal is to bring an activist court back to the middle. Sound here from Global News.

NETANYAHU: Imagine that in the United States, the Supreme Court could tell the president, “Ok, we are nullifying any one of your decisions just based on something that we think is unreasonable.” You would not accept it. We don't accept it, but we have to correct it. And that's what we just did. It's a minor correction.

REICHARD: Is it really minor? Joining us now to talk about it is WORLD’s Global Desk Chief and reporter in Europe, Jenny Lind Schmitt.

Good morning, Jenny!

JENNY LIND SCHMITT, REPORTER: Good morning.

REICHARD: Jenny, what arguments are being brought against the government?

SCHMITT: Well, several citizens groups have brought petitions against the current government concerning a change to the country's reasonableness law. And I'll kind of give us some background. As soon as Netanyahu came into power, his government proposed some really big changes to the judiciary system. And the main change, and this is the one that the is being challenged is this, that up until now, the Israeli Supreme Court had the power to determine which laws met what it called this reasonableness standard. The court could strike down laws that it found unreasonable and often in the past, those have had to do with laws permitting Israeli settlements in the West Bank, and other issues like that. The change that the Knesset has passed takes away power from the Supreme Court to determine this reasonableness standard.

REICHARD: Well, here in the U.S., we have the principle and precedent of judicial review, the Supreme Court here can assess and rule unconstitutional those laws that violate the US Constitution. But that is not the case. In Israel, Jenny, how is its system different?

SCHMITT: So since the founding of Israel in 1948, Israel has not had a written constitution. The Declaration of Independence calls for one but it was put off over the years, first by the the first president David Ben Gurion as his concession to get different parties to cooperate together to form the country. So instead over the years, the Knesset has passed a series of laws that are called the basic laws, and those are they function as a quasi constitution. Many Israelis say now that the fact that there isn't a written constitution in place has really exacerbated some of the problems that they're working through right now. And I think it's also kind of essential to remember that the Israel has a parliament, and it has a judiciary, it has one house of parliament of whom the Prime Minister is the head of the leading party. So there's just one body and the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court is the only check on the power of the government.

REICHARD: I want to try to bring this down from the meta and the existential feel of this question, Jenny, what happens if the court uses its reasonableness standard to overrule the Knesset law curtailing the reasonableness standard?

SCHMITT: Well, yeah, it may seem existential and theoretic. But that's exactly where the rubber meets the road in this case. That's what many people following the issue are calling a constitutional crisis, even though as we were just talking about there is no actual written constitution. The big question is the military and the security forces. If the court overrules the law curtailing its own power, then who is the ultimate authority? And which one will the Israel Defense Forces obey? Military service is a hugely defining and unifying factor in Israeli life, people from all walks of life served together and they are reservists together, and they're really proud of their service. But this past year over this issue, 1000s of reservists have said that they won't show up if this law remains in force. So who are those service members? Who will they obey if the Supreme Court or the Knesset?

REICHARD: And this isn't the only challenge to the Netanyahu government that the Court is hearing right now, as I understand it, last week, Israel's High Court began hearings in a case challenging a law that makes it harder to remove the prime minister from power. So what's going on there?

SCHMITT: Right, so that law was passed earlier this year in the spring, and it better defines how, under what circumstances a prime minister can be removed from power. It's actually a situation that the Supreme Court justices when they were doing these hearings last week, they said that this is an area that needs some definition. It's been very vague. And so most of the justice, they're in agreement that something should happen there that it should be really clearly defined how a prime minister could be declared unfit for office. However, this law was passed. It's pretty clear to protect Netanyahu and so the Supreme Court justices said that they are going to rule not so much on the content of the law, but the determine when it would be put in force and they're saying they have the possibility to delay it becoming law until the next Knesset, which would then take away that self serving protection for Netanyahu.

REICHARD: Jenny, I'm wondering what makes this story significant to people living outside of Israel?

SCHMITT: I think it's really important to underline the fact that Israel was founded 75 years ago this year, but it was founded as a secular nation. It's Jewish, yes, and founded by Jews who wanted to find a land where they could be safe after the ravages of World War II, and the Holocaust, the idea was to create a homeland. But the founders, David Ben Gurion, who I mentioned earlier, and other political leaders, they were primarily secular Jews. The nature of the country over the years as people have emigrated, as society has changed, has shifted somewhat. And so there is a big contingent of more practicing Orthodox Jews. And there is a real desire there to change the nature of the state so that it is more religious and that the laws uphold Jewish law. So secular Israelis are saying that this government, because of the coalition partners really want to change the nature of the nation of Israel to a more religious society. And they're raising the questions. Well, what about those of us who aren't particularly religious? What about Arabs, who are Israeli citizens who will protect their rights? And so there's all these kinds of questions that are being asked and raised and that it may seem like Netanyahu has really tried to, to frame this as Oh, this is just a conflict about the Supreme Court power just like you have the United States. But the his critics are saying no, no, no. This is really a debate about what will the nation of Israel look like going forward?

REICHARD: Jenny Lind Schmitt is WORLD’s Global Desk Chief and a reporter in Europe. Thanks for joining us!

SCHMITT: Thank you, Mary.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Some folks love to go on cruises. But one Australian couple really really love to go on cruises. So much so, they booked 51 back to back trips and spent almost 500 days doing it! Jess Ansen explains to A Current Affair YouTube Channel:

JESS: Where else can you go? You go for dinner, you go to a show, you go dancing, through the day you have all these activities

Along with no cooking, no cleaning, no grocery shopping! They say it’s cheaper to cruise the world for two years than to pay for a retirement home in Australia. And they still meet up with family when ports of call bring them near.

MARTY: This was the perfect answer, really. Go cruising. See the world and meet these people and make lifelong friends. It’s a wonderful life.

The couple plans at least another year just cruisin’ along.

It’s The World and Everything in It.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Today is Thursday, October 5th. Thank you for turning to WORLD Radio to help start your day. Good morning. I’m Mary Reichard.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown. Coming next on The World and Everything in It: a high-risk pregnancy, part two.

Yesterday, we brought you the story of a mom who faced a serious diagnosis during her pregnancy last year. A doctor said her condition made an abortion medically necessary, but she refused. WORLD’s Life Beat reporter Leah Savas picks up the story with her visit to the family’s home in Chattanooga this summer.

LEAH SAVAS, REPORTER: July sunshine glows through two tall windows in the Gillmore family room. Ashley Gillmore pulls up a video on the widescreen TV. It’s a slideshow of videos and pictures she’s put together of her last pregnancy.

ASHLEY: Hopefully avoid any tears because it was a little bit, like, emotional going way back to the beginning.

As the video plays, her three-year-old daughter reacts to a clip of Ashley’s belly moving under her shirt.

DAUGHTER: I saw Isaiah kicking!

ASHELY: I know, he’s kicking in there!

During Ashley’s pregnancy, doctors were continually surprised by how healthy she and the baby were—even with multiple serious complications. But if anything went wrong, they worried they might lose Ashley…or the baby…or both.

When her water broke in January, Ashley was just 29 weeks pregnant. She went straight to the hospital and stayed there for 25 days as the medical staff did everything they could to give the baby a better chance of survival. They administered medicine to help his brain develop quicker. Steroids to boost lung development. The staff also monitored Ashley closely in case her condition changed, requiring immediate delivery.

ASHLEY: Each day was a victory because of his growth, the, you know, just trying to get him as much time inside to just continue to grow.

They scheduled her C-section and hysterectomy for early February, at 32 weeks. The room was cold, and Ashley remembers her husband Steve holding her hand and brushing tears from her cheeks—even though she wasn’t crying. But her baby boy did, right away when he came out. Ashley was awake and heard him.

SOUND: [Isaiah Crying After Birth]

She got to see him—a little four-pound preemie—before they whisked him away to the neonatal intensive care unit. Then, before the hysterectomy, the staff asked what she wanted to listen to.

MUSIC: ["God is in this Story"]

The last thing she remembers hearing before they put her under was a song by Katy Nichole.  

MUSIC: ["God is in this Story"]

After Ashley woke up, she got some scary news about the baby.

ASHLEY: He had taken a bad turn and had a lung infection…[37:56] And then four days into the NICU, he ended up having to have a blood infusion because of how much, how sick he was.

Meanwhile, Ashley had lost a lot of blood. She was in pain, and her mind was foggy.

She took her first visits to the NICU in a wheelchair with Steve.

SOUND: [NICU activity]

Their baby looked sick the first few days. They could only touch him through the openings in the side of his isolette. But one day, the baby surprised his doctors and turned a corner.

Six days after the delivery, the hospital discharged Ashley. And three weeks after his birthday, Isaiah Bear Gillmore left the hospital. It was more than a month earlier than the doctors expected.

ASHLEY: So this is the boy's room technically, Isaiah’s crib will go here, but he's still sleeping in a bassinet in our bedroom because he's still so tiny. But he's got all his little bear stuff over here.

During my visit in July, Ashley showed me around the kids’ bedrooms.

In a corner of the boys’ room by the window, there’s a little shelf with bear-themed memorabilia: A floppy teddy bear, slippers that say “baby bear,” a headband with bear ears.

ASHLEY: We wanted something to like represent strength along with the name Isaiah because that means God's promise so it was like, what else could represent strength?

Isaiah is mostly bald with beautiful big eyes. He’s small for his age. When I met him in July, he was almost six months old. Ashley said he wasn’t even measuring like a four-month-old. But his personality was already starting to come out.

ASHLEY: He really loves to just like look out and kind of observe. Like he's very facially expressive with his eyebrows, little eyebrows move around.

Looking back, Ashley’s husband Steve said the whole experience was eye-opening, especially when the doctor mentioned abortion.

STEVE: You read in the news, and all these things, these types of things happen. But then when it's like, offered to you, from someone who's a medical professional—for me, it really opened my eyes up to the fact that like, these medical professionals are recommending these things. For the doctor, it was just so natural for her to just, ‘Well, I think you need to consider doing this.

The Gillmores showed me some trinkets they’ve kept from the pregnancy.

The tiny blood pressure cuff Isaiah wore in the NICU. The little knit beanie he wore to stay warm. Ultrasound pictures.

STEVE: He's just as much as him outside as he was inside, just at a different stage of growth, like, where do you where do you draw that line? And so the conviction was just like. Okay, we, we know what we say we believe. Are we going to live out our faith in this way?

Ashley had been preparing to die if that’s what it took to give her baby a chance at life. But even with a happier ending than Steve and Ashley had prepared for, things haven’t been easy.

ASHLEY: I still have a lot of mental health struggles. I've struggled more, I think, with postpartum stuff than I ever have had. And then just, I think the stress of being worried about his weight.

She said the experience taught her how hard it is to put your faith in God into action. Every day, Ashley had to make that difficult choice to trust in God even with such a bleak diagnosis. But God gave her frequent reminders. Including that song she heard while drifting off before her hysterectomy.

ASHLEY: It was just like the words of it—like, “God is in this story, even in the highs and lows.” I remember, like, thinking the words of that song.

 MUSIC: ["God is in this Story"]

ASHLEY: God is good and has a plan. Whether we can see it right now or not, God already knows the ending of this. So, no matter what we're going through right now, God has a bigger picture in mind.

Reporting for WORLD, I’m Leah Savas in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Today is Thursday, October 5th. Good morning! This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Myrna Brown.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: And I’m Mary Reichard. Up next: WORLD commentator Cal Thomas says Americans can learn from the border crisis in Britain.

CAL THOMAS, COMMENTATOR: The phrase “Climate change denier” has wormed its way into the modern lexicon. It’s intended to shame those who have a doubtful view of science supporting the idea that the world is in danger of burning up in weeks, months, or years. They can’t seem to decide on the timing.

There is another form of denial that one can clearly see. It is a denial that the southern border is “secure.” With pictures showing – and border patrol agents confirming – that more than eight thousand migrants are crossing into the U.S. every day without authorization, it is a lie to say the border is secure.

Sometimes it takes a person from outside the country to wake us up to threats we face. Russian writer Alexandr Solzhenitsyn did that in a 1978 Harvard commencement speech, in which he warned that the West suffered from “a decline in courage.” The left hated the speech, but he was right in his Cold War period indictment.

Last week, the United Kingdom’s Home Secretary Suella Braverman delivered remarks at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington. She warned of the dangers of uncontrolled immigration without assimilation that now threatens America, Britain, and other prosperous nations. She called it:

SUELLA BRAVERMAN: An existential challenge for the political and cultural institutions of the West. It’s a basic rule of history that nations which cannot defend their borders will not long survive.

Ms. Braverman noted the majority of migrants are motivated by economic incentives, not persecution in their home countries. That, she said, does not fit the international definition of “refugee.”

BRAVERMAN: I believe that the nation state is one of humanity’s great civilizing forces. It creates a shared identity and a shared purpose. And that does not need to have a racial component. Typically it binds people of different racial backgrounds together.

She also said that a spirit of togetherness and unity produces patriotism, heroism and kindness:

BRAVERMAN: It is the belief that we have specific obligations to others, precisely because they are our fellow countrymen.

Then came a statement that should be obvious to all.

BRAVERMAN: Uncontrolled immigration, inadequate integration, and a misguided dogma of multiculturalism have proven a toxic combination for Europe over the past few decades.

She referenced a 2010 speech by then German Chancellor Angela Merkel in which Merkel admitted that multiculturalism was a failed experiment.

Ms. Braverman is herself a child of immigrants. But she notes…

BRAVERMAN: There has been more migration to the UK and Europe in the last 25 years than in all the time that went before. It has been too much, too quick, with too little thought given to integration and the impact on social cohesion.

The costs are staggering in the UK and U.S. and cannot be sustained as even more come. As with uncontrolled crime, an uncontrolled border is an invitation for more of the same. The solution is not difficult: finish the border wall and deport all but legitimate asylum seekers who fled their nations under political or religious persecution. The latest stop-gap government funding bill passed late Saturday night contains no funding for border policy changes, according to reporting in The Hill. What does that tell you?

Our constitutional republic is fragile and must be renewed by each generation. We are unlikely to get a second chance.

I’m Cal Thomas.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Tomorrow, John Stonestreet returns for Culture Friday.

And, entertainment giant Disney turns 100 years old this month. WORLD’s Arts and Media editor Collin Garbarino takes a look back. Plus, Ask the Editor. That and more tomorrow.

I’m Mary Reichard.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown. 

The World and Everything in It comes to you from WORLD Radio. WORLD’s mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates, and inspires.

The Bible records when “Herod the king laid violent hands on some who belonged to the church. He killed James the brother of John with the sword, and when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to arrest Peter also. This was during the days of Unleavened Bread. And when he had seized [Peter], he put him in prison, delivering him over to four squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out to the people. So Peter was kept in prison, but earnest prayer for him was made to God by the church.” –Acts chapter 12, verses 1 through 5.

Go now in grace and peace.

WORLD Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of WORLD Radio programming is the audio record.