The World and Everything in It: October 27, 2022

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Good morning!

Today, a deeper look at the annual Revoice conference for people who identify as LGBT and Christian.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Also an update on the war in Ukraine.

Plus All Saints Day. What is it, and where did it come from?

And commentator Cal Thomas on contenders for the Republican ticket in 2024.

REICHARD: It’s Thursday, October 27th. This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Mary Reichard.

BROWN: And I’m Myrna Brown. Good morning!

REICHARD: Time now for news with Kent Covington.

KENT COVINGTON, NEWS ANCHOR: Ukraine » Russian missiles and Iranian-made drones continue to target civilian populations in Ukraine.

Officials said Tuesday that Russian missiles killed two people, including a pregnant woman, in the city of Dnipro. Several others are in critical condition.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg says Vladimir Putin is failing on the battlefield…

STOLTENBERG: He is responding with more indiscriminate attacks on Ukrainian cities against civilians and against critical infrastructure.

ZELENSKYY: [Ukrainian]

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who is Jewish, continues to call on Israel to step up its support of Ukraine. Kyiv is urging Israel to share its air-defense expertise to help Ukraine fend off Russian aerial attacks.

North Korea warning » The White House and Asian U.S. allies are warning North Korea against carrying out another nuclear test.

The United States, Japan, and South Korea suspect Pyongyang is preparing for a nuclear test and they warned Wednesday that their joint response would be—quote—"decisive.”

Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman:

SHERMAN: All of this behavior is reckless and deeply destabilizing to the region. We urge the DPRK to refrain from further provocations.

The three allied nations are bolstering their defense cooperation to deter North Korea. Last month, Pyongyang adopted legislation spelling out when it might use nukes, including preemptively.

This year alone, North Korea has tested more than 20 ballistic missiles, but it has not tested a nuclear weapon in five years.

Wisconsin Brooks verdict » The man who drove his speeding SUV into a Christmas parade last year faced a jury in Wisconsin Wednesday.

DOROW: We the jury find the defendant, Darrell E. Brooks, guilty of first degree intentional homicide as charged in count-1 of the information.

Judge Jennifer Dorow read the jury’s verdict as Darrell Brooks silently rested his head on folded hands. His subdued demeanor stood in sharp contrast to his sometimes outrageous behavior during the trial, during which the judge had him removed from the courtroom multiple times.

The jury found Brooks guilty of all 76 charges. He faces a mandatory life sentence on each of six homicide counts.

Men convicted of Whitmer kidnapping plot » Meantime in Michigan, a jury found three men guilty of supporting terrorism with a plot to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

The charges focused on paramilitary drills and fierce contempt for government ahead of the 2020 election.

COURT: For count-1, gang membership felonies, we find the defendant guilty. Count-2, providing material support for an act of terrorism, we find the defendant guilty.

The verdict heard there for Pete Musico. He was convicted on a firearms charge, as well. Co-defendants Joe Morrison and Paul Bellar were also found guilty.

They held gun training in rural Jackson County with a leader of the kidnapping scheme, Adam Fox.

NY judge reinstates workers fired over vax mandate » A judge in New York says that city sanitation workers should not have been fired for failing to comply with a COVID vaccine mandate. WORLD’s Mary Muncy has more.

MARY MUNCY, REPORTER: The judge ruled that the vaccine mandate for the workers was not about public safety and health, it was about policy compliance on the job.

New York City had rescinded its vaccine requirement for the private sector. So, the former sanitation workers said the mandate for them as public sector workers was arbitrary.

The judge said his decision was not about the effectiveness of vaccines.

New York City is appealing the ruling.

For WORLD, I’m Mary Muncy.

Iran protests / 15 killed in Iran attack » In Iran, gunmen attacked a major Shiite holy site on Wednesday, killing at least 15 people and wounding dozens. Iranian state TV blamed the attack on Sunni Muslim extremists who have targeted the country's Shiite majority in the past.

The attack appeared to be unrelated to nationwide anti-government protests, which continued yesterday…

AUDIO: [Protest]

Students chanted slogans outside the University of Tehran …

AUDIO: [Protest]

And thousands of protesters poured into the streets of a northwestern city to mark 40 days since the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini. She was arrested for not wearing her hijab correctly. Many women ripped off their headscarves and waved them overhead.

AUDIO: [Cemetery]

In Amini's Kurdish hometown of Saqez …

AUDIO: [Cemetery]

...as many as 10,000 demonstrators marched through the local cemetery to her grave.

Sunak faces Parliament » AUDIO: Prime minister! (cheers)

Britain’s new prime minister Rishi Sunak on Wednesday made his first appearance in Parliament since taking office. He received a warm welcome, but also faced plenty criticism from the opposition party.

Labour Party Leader Keir Starmer:

STARMER: There’s a new Tory at the top, but as always with them, party first, country second.

Starmer questioned whether Sunak had been honest about what it will take to fix the nation’s problems. Sunak’s response…

SUNAK: I have been honest. We will have to take difficult decisions to restore economic stability and confidence.

Sunak has appointed a government that mixes allies with experienced ministers from the administrations of his two immediate predecessors as he tries to tackle Britain’s economic problems.

I’m Kent Covington. Still ahead: The war in Ukraine and possible looming battle for the city of Kherson.

This is The World and Everything in It.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: It’s Thursday the 27th of October, 2022.

Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Myrna Brown.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: And I’m Mary Reichard. First up: Christians who struggle with same-sex attraction. And we’ll warn listeners that the topic we’re about to discuss might not be appropriate for the younger set.

BROWN: So this might be a good time to hit pause and come back later.

We’re talking about The Revoice Conference. First held five years ago, it was a meeting of Christians who hold orthodox Biblical beliefs about human sexuality, but who also think same-sex attraction is an unchangeable part of someone’s identity.

In other words, you can be born this way, but don’t act this way.

REICHARD: Revoice has had its critics since the beginning. They say Revoice conflates the teaching of the Bible with cultural messages about sexuality and gender.

WORLD reporter Todd Vician covered the latest Revoice conference for WORLD Magazine. And Mary Jackson covers sexuality and gender issues for WORLD. Both join us now to talk more about Revoice.

BROWN: Todd and Mary, welcome!

TODD VICIAN, REPORTER: Thank you, Myrna

MARY JACKSON, REPORTER: It’s good to be here.

BROWN: Tell us more about what prompted you to cover this year’s conference?

JACKSON: Sure. Even though Revoice isn't new, we haven't covered it a whole lot since its first conference in 2018. And we know there's been some controversy, ever since that first conference, within the Presbyterian Church of America in particular.Beyond that, we also know the culture has moved at a rapid pace toward normalizing homosexuality and codifying it into law. More people are identifying as LGBTQ than ever before. So, to answer your question, Myrna, we knew some of the backstory and the controversy, but Todd and I wanted to find out for ourselves what Revoice is all about.

BROWN: And your article notes Revoice offers a different take on the argument that churches should affirm homosexual behavior or same-sex marriage. Revoice is associated with a wider group known as Side B. Can you explain what that means?

JACKSON: Yeah, so Side B maintains a belief in biblical orthodoxy when it comes to sexuality. So they would agree that sexuality is reserved for a man and a woman who are married. Side B promotes celibacy for those who are same-sex attracted. But they see same sex attraction as a part of a person's identity that should be treated similar to race or nationality.

VICIAN: And I'll just add Side B formed in contrast to what's known as Side A, a group that affirms sexual interactions in marriage between same-sex couples and believes God intended and blesses their actions.

BROWN: Now, Mary, I understand you attended the conference via livestream and Todd, you drove from San Antonio to attend in person. Tell us a little bit about what you saw and heard?

VICIAN: I was one of about 400 people who met for two and a half days at Chase Oaks Church. That's a mega church in suburban Dallas. And when I first arrived, I was told to pick out a sticker with my preferred pronouns to put on my lanyard before joining the growing crowd. And the theme of this year's conference was “achieving fullness in God.” And so pastors and theologians who say they are gay Christians, as well as straight supporters, emphasized from the stage in rapid-fire speeches gay identity as something that blesses the church and should be accepted and celebrated.

BROWN: And Mary, what surprised you as you watched via livestream?

JACKSON: Yeah so I took more of a bird's eye view and I was looking for what's new and how Revoice has changed over the years. And Revoice since its inception has referred to those who struggle with same-sex attraction in the church as “sexual minorities.” This year speakers and emcees added in what they call “gender minorities,” and one emcee introduced a panelist using they/them pronouns. Todd and I were comparing notes the whole time and we saw evidence that gender ideology is increasingly a part of what Revoice offers, which as we know runs contrary to what Scripture says in the creation mandate.

BROWN: Todd, any further impressions leaving the conference?

VICIAN: Christians who say they're gay and celibate are trying to hold the line against even more liberalism in the group. And things like preferred pronoun stickers, trans speakers, identifying more subsets of gender minorities create divisions where they intend to actually create a community and they're seeing these problems in the same way we see critical theory in society and increasingly the church.

BROWN: So Mary, as I mentioned earlier, you have covered the wider culture war going on with sexuality and gender. Can you talk more about how what Revoice is promoting fits into the wider culture war?

JACKSON: Yes, so a lot of the pushback from Revoice has been that it's misleading people into believing same-sex attraction and now gender confusion are a fixed part of their identity, and telling them that they're an oppressed group within the larger church. One of those critics—Rosaria Butterfield—is a former lesbian feminist, and she was a tenured English professor at Syracuse University. And she's now a pastor's wife and a mother of four. So here's Rosaria in her own words talking about the ways Revoice has gone down the road of affirming cultural messages about sexuality and gender.

BUTTERFIELD: This is bad news. Because sin is progressive. And what we're seeing and Revoice is the progression of that sin. I think at this point, we've so normalized homosexuality that when I say something like, 'Homosexuality is harmful, and it's changeable, people are like, wow, you've really lost your mind.

BROWN: Hmm. Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, Isaiah 5:20 comes to my mind. Todd Vician and Mary Jackson, thank you for your good work and for joining us.

JACKSON: You’re welcome. Thank you for having us.

VICIAN: Thank you, Myrna.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Coming up next on The World and Everything in It: the looming battle for Kherson.

Ukraine’s forces have made impressive gains in recent months. It’s recaptured several areas once occupied by Russian troops. And now attention is on the city of Kherson. Russian forces have occupied it since the opening weeks of the invasion.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: There are conflicting reports about whether Russian troops are digging in to defend the city or if they’re preparing to flee. There’s some concern that Vladimir Putin may give the order to blow up a dam in Kherson, which could trigger catastrophic flooding.

Here to talk about it is John Hardie. He’s an expert on Russian policy and U.S. policy toward Russia.

He’s also deputy director of the Russia Program at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

REICHARD: John, good morning!

JOHN HARDIE, GUEST: Good morning. Great to be with you.

REICHARD: Well John, what is the significance of the city of Kherson in this war? And what is its strategic value?

HARDIE: Sure. So, it has great economic significance for Ukraine, a lot of trade runs through there. Also great political and symbolic significance being the only regional capital that Russia has taken since launching its full scale invasion back in February. And then, finally, militarily, Kherson is really the gateway to Odessa and another very important Ukrainian city, also a very politically symbolically important Ukrainian city. So retaking Kherson city would really close the door to a potential Russian move towards a desert, I think those already looking very unlikely given the the military realities on the ground at present, but retaking Kherson would put the final nail in the coffin.

REICHARD: If Russia were to blow up the dam in Kherson, what effect would that have on the war and on Ukraine’s military?

HARDIE: So, I think if Russia were to do that, remember, for the World War II buffs, back in 1941, the Soviets did something similar to try to stop the Germans from crossing the river. I think it'd be a similar calculus here. Basically, it'd be a Russian withdrawal across the river from the western bank to the eastern bank. And then they'd be trying to slow down Ukrainian forces who would want to pursue and continue their counter offensive. So it'd be to flood the surrounding area and slow down the advancing Ukrainian units.

REICHARD: There is also concern that Russia might use a dirty bomb in Kherson. Perhaps start with what is a dirty bomb and what impact would that have?

HARDIE: Sure. So a dirty bomb is basically where you combine radiological material with some sort of explosive. It's not splitting an atom like a nuclear weapon, but it can spread a lot of radioactive material and, obviously, be quite devastating, and especially psychologically so. So, for the past few days, basically, that the Russian defense minister, and chief of the general staff had been talking to some of their western counterparts, including their U.S. counterparts, and warning that in their words, Ukraine is planning to use a dirty bomb and into frame it on Russia. So a lot of folks in Western governments are worried that this is somehow Russia laying the groundwork for a false flag attack. To my mind, the Russian use of a dirty bomb is very, very unlikely. At least to me, this reads more like a Russian information operation and try to delegitimize Ukraine but anytime this sort of subject is broached, you do have to take it very seriously

REICHARD: A spokesperson for the Ukrainian military said Moscow is moving its most valuable troops and assets out of the city of Kherson, leaving only conscripts and those deemed expendable.

How do you read this if true? Is all of this further evidence that Russia knows it will lose Kherson and maybe planning to destroy the entire city?

HARDIE: Well, so if Russia does try to do a withdraw across the river, I expect that it might be how they try to pull it off. It'll be very difficult for them to withdraw the troops on the front line while holding the line long enough for the rest to get away safely. They might try to hold the line with Mobilize forces. I think that the mobilized forces would probably need some help from the professional units because alone they're not very combat effective. But so far, I haven't seen evidence of the large-scale withdrawal of Russian equipment or there’s some indications that may be starting. But at the same time the Russians appear to be continuing to try to hold the line on the western bank. So, to me, it's still unclear what exactly they're going to do.

REICHARD: Reports are that Russia is facing major military production delays and mounting losses. And a British Defense report said on Tuesday that Russia’s “artillery ammunition is running low.” John, where does Russia now stand in terms of its capability to continue waging war?

HARDIE: Sure, so I think Western sanctions and export controls definitely will—and perhaps already have—hurt the Russian defense industrial base. At the same time, a lot of these statements from Western governments have a good bit of spin to them. For example, there was one claim made by the Treasury Department in the U.S. where they were saying that a certain weapons system is delayed because of the new Western sanctions. Well, it was already delayed and sanctions played a part in that, but it's not something new. And by the same vein, the Western governments have been saying Russia's tank manufacturing plant is shut down. Well, I think, actually, there's been visual evidence that it continues to put out at least some tanks. So I think Russia probably came into the war with some stocks of components and whatnot to continue production. How vast those stocks are, I really can't say. So sanctions and export controls definitely will have an effect over time. But at least to my mind, that time probably hasn't really come, at least not in a large scale way for Russia.

REICHARD: John Hardie is with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. John, thanks so much for your time!

HARDIE: Sure, thank you.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Well, Elon Musk, the billionaire Tesla CEO—has reached such an iconic status in America that some people will buy anything he’s selling. Don’t believe me?

Well, here’s the proof. Musk just sold a million dollars worth of a perfume called “Burnt Hair.”

He sold 10,000 bottles of the Burnt Hair fragrance at a $100 a pop in a matter of hours.

Musk is called many things:

Tech pioneer, space explorer, the world's richest man, and now perfume salesman. The Midas Touch.

It’s The World and Everything in It.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Today is Thursday, October 27th. Thank you for turning to WORLD Radio to help start your day.

Good morning. I’m Myrna Brown.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: And I’m Mary Reichard. Coming next on The World and Everything in It: celebrating heroes of the faith.

Halloween’s next week and many Americans are putting on costumes and handing out candy.

But some Christians have their sights on a different celebration. Here’s WORLD Reporter Anna Johansen Brown.

ANNA JOHANSEN BROWN, REPORTER: All Saints’ Day isn’t a flashy holiday. If you walk down the party aisle at your local Walmart looking for themed table decor, you’re going to be out of luck. But it’s a holiday that Christians have observed for centuries. It started long before trick or treating took center stage.

BROWN: It's a heroes of the faith sort of day.

Paul Brown is a research pastor and an adjunct professor at Trinity International University.

BROWN: Abraham, of course, is a saint from the Old Testament, but St. Paul, St. Peter, and James, Stephen…

Brown says that All Saints’ Day is a time to celebrate heroes of the faith from scripture, as well as prominent figures in the early church. 

BROWN: Depending on what tradition you're from, it can mean saints, as in those who are named saints, or saints, who are just all of those who are in Christ.

Many Roman Catholics celebrate canonized saints on All Saints’ Day. But for protestants, it’s a broader group than that. Stephen Gauthier is a canon theologian for the Anglican Church in North America, Diocese of the Upper Midwest.

GAUTHIER: We know that all Christians are saints in the New Testament Paul says to all the saints at Ephesus, to all the saints of Corinth, right…

Gauthier says All Saints’ Day started as a celebration of martyrs…people killed for their faith.

GAUTHIER: In the early church martyrs played a very special role. People were very proud of their local martyrs. You know, these are beautiful witnesses to the faith.

At first it was local, individual celebrations for friends and family members who’d been killed for their faith. Then the church decided to choose one day to celebrate all martyrs. Later, that came to include all saints, not just those who died for their faith, but also ordinary Christians who lived quiet, faithful lives.

At first, the church observed All Saints’ Day in the spring around Easter.

Then Christianity spread to northern Europe.

GAUTHIER: And Northern Europe was Celtic. And there was a great Celtic feast. You know, basically about November 1.

That feast was Samhain—the festival that, in part, led to our modern version of Halloween. The church decided to move its celebration of saints to that season. Part of the goal was to give new believers a better holiday to observe instead of the pagan one.

So November 1st became All Saints’ Day. In the 10th century, the church added a vigil the night before. Over the years, that eventually morphed into Halloween.

GAUTHIER: You know how All Hallows meaning all saints, the eve of All Saints Day, All Hallows Eve. And that's where we get Halloween from.

Some Christians don’t want anything to do with Halloween. Jennifer Woodruff Tait says she doesn’t blame them, but All Saints’ Day is separate. Tait is the managing editor of Christian History Magazine.

WOODRUFF TAIT: The idea of All Hallows Eve, fitting in with All Saints Day is not a statement endorsing every celebration of modern secular Halloween.

Tait says All Saints’ Day is an opportunity to think rightly about Christians who have died.

WOODRUFF TAIT: The most important thing about those who have gone before us in Christ, is not that they're dead, but that they're in Christ.

One of the ways Christians can celebrate All Saints’ Day is to learn about some of those heroes of the faith. People like Clement, one of the apostle Peter’s students. Clement was a bishop in the church of Rome in about 90 AD. He wrote letters to the early church around the same time John wrote the book of Revelation. Paul Brown says Clement had a lot of things to say that are still useful for contemporary believers.

BROWN: But he focuses on some of the important things that Paul focused on too. Ethics, how to live the Christian life, living a holy life, and also church unity. That was very, very big, very important to him.

Brown pages through a collection of writings from the early church fathers, reading from one of Clement’s original letters.

BROWN: It is right and holy brothers, this is chapter 14, that we should be obedient to God rather than follow those who are arrogant, and unruly, to set themselves up as leaders. So he's talking a lot about obedience and humility and hospitality.

The early church writers were very forthright about what they believed. Polycarp was a student of the apostle John. In his letters to the early church, he doesn’t pull any punches.

BROWN: Whoever twists the sayings of the Lord just suit his own sinful desires, and claims that there is neither resurrection nor judgment. Well, that person is first born of Satan. Let us therefore leave behind the worthless speculation of the crowd and their false teachings. And let us return to the word delivered to us from the beginning.

Irenaeus was one of Polycarp’s students. He wrote about the importance of the Old Testament—that it was the bedrock of the Gospel, setting up Christ’s coming.

BROWN: The way in which the two testaments fit together was important for the very early church, and I find it important now, as well. There are some Evangelical Christians that I'm aware of that teach as if the Old Testament is no longer useful to us, except for moral examples. Whereas these guys would have said, No, that's not true, that the Old Testament actually clearly talks about salvation, by God's grace and through faith. Just like the New Testament authors.

Jennifer Woodruff Tait says some Christians think church history is boring.

JENNIFER WOODRUFF TAIT: And I would say, Look, these are your brothers and sisters in Christ. They just happen to be dead, you know, but they faced the same problems that we have in terms of Church administration, and doctrine, and behavior. They came up with solutions that can be helpful to us.

All Saints’ Day is partly about looking back at church history. But Stephen Gauthier says it’s really about looking ahead.

GAUTHIER: We're like a train in a tunnel. Okay, right now, those of us who aren't yet with the Lord are going through the tunnel. But it's a long train. And you know, the engine, which is our Lord Jesus Christ in His resurrection, and the earth, the first cars of the train have come out into the light. So we're all tied together, it's the same train. And so that's the church triumphant, those who are now with the Lord celebrating him, and those of us who are still on the way, the church militant, those of us are still on the way.

Reporting for WORLD, I’m Anna Johansen Brown.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Today is Thursday, October 27th. Good morning! This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Mary Reichard.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myna Brown. A lot of folks are already thinking about the 2024 presidential election. Here’s commentator Cal Thomas on why Republicans should keep an open mind on contenders.

CAL THOMAS, COMMENTATOR: Former President Donald Trump says any member of his administration who runs for president against him – should he decide to run again in 2024 – would be engaging in an act of disloyalty.

Appearing on Fox Radio’s Brian Kilmeade Show, Trump was asked about possible other GOP candidates, specifically his former vice president, Mike Pence, his UN Ambassador Nikki Haley, and his secretary of state, Mike Pompeo. Trump’s response: “Well, many of them have said they would never run if I run. So, we’ll see whether or not that turns out to be true. I think it’d be very disloyal if they did [run], but that’s OK too. And the polls have me leading by 40, 50 points.” Partially that may be because no one else, including him, has yet announced for president.

The presidency should always be an open contest. One doesn’t have an automatic victory in professional sports. Each season begins anew with every team and every player a potential winner, based on their skills and determination.

Donald Trump should step up to the plate like anyone else and earn a victory, should he choose to compete. If competition in business improves products and services, doesn’t it also make sense that competition for the world’s most powerful job improves the chances of the best president? OK, that doesn’t always work, but the principle remains.

In politics, as in most other things, victories should be earned. This is not a monarchy where titles are conveyed by blood and accidents of birth. American voters ought to be able to test the ideas, performance and promises of a number of presidential candidates before deciding their party’s nominee and eventually their next president.

Given Trump’s legal problems and caustic, some would say acerbic personality, he might not be able to run again. The country deserves to see “the torch passed to a new generation,” as John F. Kennedy said in his 1961 Inaugural Address.

Republicans who choose to run for president next time should not be seen as running against Donald Trump, though he is framing it that way. They should be seen as running for America, to make her even better. (“We can do better” said JFK during the 1960 presidential campaign against Richard Nixon). And so we did, reaching the moon in 1969.

“We can do better” is a better slogan, I think, than “Make America Great Again,” because while it acknowledges America’s imperfections, it also taps into a “can-do” spirit that has in the past led to invention, innovation, personal responsibility and accountability.

Trump claims opinion polls show him far ahead of potential rivals. Again, that’s because no one else has declared yet, including him. Let’s get through the midterms, which will tell us a lot about where the Republican Party is headed (and Democrats, too, if they have blind loyalty to President Biden and his failed economic policies).

As Winston Churchill observed: “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

Donald Trump should not be able to anoint himself as the only Republican presidential candidate in 2024. Let him compete like everyone else and let the voters decide.

I’m Cal Thomas.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Tomorrow on Culture Friday, Andrew Walker joins us to talk about Christian nationalism and what it means.

And, a review of the latest superhero movie: Black Adam.

Plus, your listener feedback.

That and more tomorrow.

I’m Mary Reichard.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown.

The World and Everything in It comes to you from WORLD Radio.

WORLD’s mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates, and inspires.

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. (James 1:5-6 ESV)

Go now in grace and peace.

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