The World and Everything in It: October 15, 2025

Editor's note: The following text is a transcript of a podcast story. To listen to the story, click on the arrow beneath the headline above.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Good morning!

The polls are tightening in key races for governor … the Pentagon is tightening a collar around the press … and political pressure is tightening in Congress.

AUDIO: We're barreling toward one of the longest shutdowns in American history.

NICK EICHER, HOST: That’s ahead on Washington Wednesday. Hunter Baker is standing by.

Also today, WORLD Tour; a focus on El Salvador.

And later: a Christian mission to bring structure and support to the homeless … facing numerous hurdles … not least from the homeless themselves.

BOUTELLER: They sat up in their mummy bags and they said, “Yeah, but we’d have to give up all this.”

MAST: It’s Wednesday, October 15th. This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Lindsay Mast.

EICHER: And I’m Nick Eicher. Good morning!

MAST: Time now for the news. Here’s Kent Covington.

KENT COVINGTON, NEWS ANCHOR: Trump meets with Argentine president » At the White House …

TRUMP:  Well, thank you very much. It's a great honor to have the leader of Argentina president and I really want to thank you very much.

President Trump welcomed Argentine President Javier Melei on Tuesday.

The two leaders talked trade.

They also highlighted a major currency swap … after the U.S. Treasury arranged a $20 billion agreement allowing Argentina temporary access to U.S. dollars in exchange for pesos — a move that helped stabilize the country’s depleted reserves. For that, Melei expressed his gratitude.

MELEI: [Speaking Spanish]

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent also took part in the meeting … and highlighted President Melei’s success … reversing decades of socialist policies.

BESSENT:  The president is fighting a hundred years of bad economic history and policy.

Since the libertarian president took office nearly two years ago, Melei has sharply cut government spending. Over that time, the country’s month-over-month inflation has fallen from more than 25% … to less than 2%. And Argentina enjoyed its first budget surplus in years.

Charlie Kirk medal » Also at the White House on Tuesday, President Trump honored Charlie Kirk … on what would have been his 32nd birthday.

TRUMP:  It's my privilege to posthumously award Charles James Kirk our nation's highest civilian honor the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Thank you.

The late conservative speaker and organizer was assassinated last month on a Utah college campus. His alleged killer is awaiting trial.

Kirk’s widow, Erika, shared her daughter’s birthday message to her father.

KIRK:  Happy birthday daddy. I want to give you a stuffed animal. ……. I want you to eat a cupcake with ice cream and I want you to go have a birthday surprise.

She said they were gathered at the White House not just to celebrate Charlie’s birthday … but—her words … “to honor a truth that he gave his entire life to defend, and that’s freedom.”

Man pleads guilty in attack against PA Governor Shapiro » Meantime, Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro denounced political violence … as he reacted to the sentencing … of the man who tried to kill him in April of this year.

SHAPIRO:  It's hard for me to stand before you today and utter the words attempted murder when it's your own life to know that someone tried to kill me.

Thirty-eight-year-old Cody Balmer scaled a security fence in the middle of the night and set fire to the governor’s mansion back in April. He said he planned to beat Shapiro with a sledgehammer.

Shapiro and members of his family were inside and had to be evacuated, but no one was harmed.

Balmer pleaded guilty to attempted murder and other charges.

He’ll spend between 20 and 50 years behind bars.

He accused the Democratic governor of taking part in harming Palestinians, but denied attacking him because he’s Jewish.

Government shutdown latest » The Senate voted again yesterday on a clean stopgap funding bill to reopen the government, but …

AUDIO:  On this vote, the yeas are 49. The nays are 45. Three fifths of the senate not having voted in the affirmative, the motion is not agreed to.

And with that, the partial government shutdown is now more than two weeks old.

Democrats held a news conference Tuesday, declaring they are holding firm to demanding an extension of Obamacare tax credits as a condition for passing a funding bill.

GOP leaders still say they’re willing to negotiate on healthcare and other concerns … but only if and when Democrats agree to pass a funding bill to reopen the government.

Powell rate cut remarks » Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell is seemingly signaling more Fed rate cuts this year.

Powell, in a speech on Tuesday, pointed to a slowdown in hiring.

POWELL:  Based on the data we do have, it's fair to say that the outlook for employment and inflation does not appear to have changed much since our September meeting four weeks ago.

And at the meeting, the central bank opted to cut its key interest rate for the first time since last year.

Many economists expect two more quarter-point rate cuts this year.

State of the Bible report » A new nationwide report from the American Bible Society takes a close look at how Americans view the Bible—and how much they trust social institutions. WORLD’s Benjamin Eicher has more:

BENJAMIN EICHER: The State of the Bible 2025 survey gathered responses from more than 2,600 adults across all 50 states.

Roughly one-third said they believe the Bible is completely accurate, while about one-fifth believe it was written to control people.

Among eight major institutions included in the study, respondents expressed the most trust in the family. The media and the government ranked lowest, with religion falling in the middle.

Those over the age of 60 were the most likely to trust religion, while younger generations were less confident.

Nearly half of those surveyed said they’ve experienced trauma that still affects them. But those who said they were able to forgive others reported significantly higher levels of trust overall.

For WORLD, I’m Benjamin Eicher.

I’m Kent Covington.

Straight ahead: Washington Wednesday with Hunter Baker. Plus, a visit to a homeless encampment in Oregon.

This is The World and Everything in It. 

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: It’s Wednesday the 15th of October.

Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Lindsay Mast.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher.

Time now for Washington Wednesday. Political scientist and WORLD Opinions contributor Hunter Baker joins us now. Hunter, good morning.

HUNTER BAKER: Good morning

EICHER: Well, we are two weeks into a government shutdown and still at a stalemate. Here’s House Speaker Mike Johnson on Monday:

REP. MIKE JOHNSON : We're barreling toward one of the longest shutdowns in American history unless Democrats drop their partisan demands and pass a clean, no strings attached budget to reopen the government and pay our federal workers.

To the speaker’s point: The longest on record happened in the first Trump term … it was 35 days. Today, the 2025 shutdown is entering Day 15 … so it’s already longer than seven of the last ten. If it continues past tomorrow, it will join the top three.

Hunter, the pressure keeps climbing and I think … and curious to hear what you think … but I think the pressure’s all on the Republicans. Have a listen to this, from Marjorie Taylor Greene … a MAGA Republican from Georgia:

MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE: … whether we're Democrats or Republicans, people right now are looking at everything through their wallet and their bank account, and they're going, The price of food has not gone down. They're saying rent has not gone down. Houses are still unaffordable, and now health insurance premiums are going to hike whether you're on the ACA or having private insurance as well. They're literally going to go up for everyone. And I don't really care about the drama up here. I could care less. 

We’ve got to fix this issue … says Marjorie Taylor Greene … and, worse, for Republicans, she added, “What I am upset over is my party has no solution.” On Monday, I talked with David Bahnsen and he thinks the Republicans are going to blink here. What do you say?

BAKER: I don't know the answer to that. I spoke with one insider who told me he has told me throughout—and he reaffirmed today—that he thinks the Republicans are going to win this thing we're going to see once Donald Trump starts to address himself to it more. The big point that I want to make is that this is really about how the ACA or Obamacare is used. The Democrats want to extend COVID-era subsidies. And it just seems to me—strange to believe that we're more than a decade and a half into this experience—and I just do not think that Obamacare has been a success. I think that it has broken a lot of things in our healthcare. Despite having very good intentions, it has not made healthcare generally more affordable. Instead, we see prices continuing to climb. So I am very concerned that if our answer to the shutdown is to just extend subsidies further, that this thing is only going to continue to grow and grow.

The second thing that I want to say is that I just think that it's untenable to continue to govern by shutdown, and we have been doing this continually for a long time as we have less and less budget discipline. And I really wish that the House and the Senate would address themselves to figuring out how to get past government by shutdown.

EICHER: Can you forecast any scenarios that might bring this to an end more quickly?

BAKER: Well, it's a good question. I mean, we have seen the percentage of government spending relative to the overall size of the economy continue to grow. Eventually that becomes unsustainable eventually. You know, that that which cannot go on, my friend Glenn Reynolds likes to say, eventually, won't. I think that we will eventually hit kind of an unsustainable point, you know. I know that we're very far away from being Mexico or Greece or something like that, but eventually you work yourself into that kind of a standpoint. I want the United States to be a place with sound policy and sound money for my children, if not for me. And so that's why I think that the government needs to address itself to this.

MAST: Another area where Democrats are under pressure … the Virginia governor’s race.

In an off-year, the party out of power generally does better, but recent polls are surprising…Democrat Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger’s lead has dwindled to just a couple points ahead of Republican Lieutenant Governor Winsome Sears. In the Attorney General race, it’s worse for Democrats…GOP incumbent Jason Miyares is now 6 points up over Democrat Jay Jones after months of being behind. The reversal of fortune coming just on the heels of that text scandal we talked about last week.

Early voting started in September…and it’s not over till ballots are counted…but what are you seeing here, Hunter?

BAKER: Well, I think that we're seeing that Winsome Sears may have a chance. I mean, this text scandal has been really big. It has gotten a lot of people's attention, and it reminds people of some of the more extreme impulses that are kind of generated by the political left in the U.S., where you have these sort of violent fantasies about killing opponents or their children. And no, it wasn't Abigail Spanberger who said these things or texted these things, but her most prominent tagline of this entire campaign has been, “Let your rage fuel you.” Well, that's a bad tagline right now with this particular scandal, and so some people are starting to reconsider, and it'll be very interesting to see if this ends up being a lot closer than it seemed to be, or if Sears even manages to win somehow.

EICHER: So Hunter, did you see the debate where winsome Sears really went after Spanberger, and she just sat there, stone faced, wouldn't look back, wouldn't respond? That looked just like a live taping of a TV commercial. I wonder if that's not part of it.

BAKER: I've seen those clips, and I think that Spanberger feels caught in this thing. I think that she feels like, Look, I'm not the one who said this. I'm not the one who created this issue, and I resent having to address it. And I think that she further does not want to anger her allies on the left by going after the Attorney General candidate. And so I think that she feels like it's a lose, lose situation, and so she's just trying to ride it out.

MAST: Well, moving north to New Jersey Hunter…any thoughts on the startling accusations coming out of the New Jersey Governor’s race? The New York Times reports Democratic Nominee Mikie Sherrill is accusing her Republican opponent Jack Ciattarelli of spreading misinformation about opioids via a medical publication he owned until 2017.

Here’s part of what Sherrill said during a debate last week … and only a part:

MIKIE SHERRILL, NJ MAYORAL CANDIDATE: And I'll tell you, yeah, tens of thousands here as you published misinformation.

We won’t play the rest because for his part, Ciatterelli flatly denies the claims and says he plans to file a defamation suit over it … and honestly, it’s a reckless claim that is not verifiable … and we’re not putting it on the air.

But this is billed as a race to watch in terms of whether Republicans will come out when Trump isn’t on the ballot. What do you make of this sudden turn in tone in New Jersey?

BAKER: Well, I think it's a desperate accusation. You know, of course, I had to read it and check it out, and I think that almost no responsible person would make an accusation of this type in the context of a political campaign. You're very free to make these sorts of claims and and without really getting into legal danger. Here we have it happening from Cheryl. But I just think that it may indicate that the Cheryl campaign thinks this race is closer than we have typically thought it is. So it'll be interesting to see. I mean, every now and then, you know, you have a Republican who manages to win, or even to become very successful in New Jersey, and so maybe there's a little bit of a wave happening here.

EICHER: This week saw a cease-fire in Gaza and the release of Israeli hostages in a deal.

AUDIO: Thank you Trump, Thank you Trump!

And there you hear crowds in Tel Aviv chanting thanks to him for his work on that deal, but no recognition from the Nobel Committee. They gave the award instead to the opposition leader in Venezuela, Maria Karina Machado. So Hunter, do you think that Trump will eventually get that kind of recognition, however grudging?

BAKER: I know, don't know if people recall when Barack Obama became president in 2008 he was named the Nobel Peace Prize winner about five minutes later. And that was, that was a case where he was the kind of person that the committee really likes, right? You know, sort of an ideal, sort of a choice. In this case, he may still have that prize coming if, if things hold up in the Middle East for another year or so. He may be the kind of person who just has to get an award at that point, but recognizing Machado from Venezuela is still a pretty big deal.

Yeah, you know, you have had kind of a left wing dictator, the successor of Hugo Chavez, who literally was not allowed to run in the last election. For her to get the recognition is pretty important. This shows a judgment against that dictatorial regime in Venezuela. That I think is is very positive. And I think that Donald Trump, if he can't have the award himself, he probably feels pretty good about this choice. And when the committee does this kind of thing, I think about when they chose somebody like Alexander Solzhenitsyn in the Soviet Union, you know, it showed a judgment against the Soviet Union, and I see this award the same way.

MAST: Well one more story of the week…the media meltdown over new Pentagon press rules…

Here’s Secretary of Defense/Secretary of War Pete Hegseth with FOX News’s Peter Doocy at the Air Force at Navy football game on the 4th:

HEGSETH: We're setting clear rules at the Pentagon. We're not playing games. We're not allowing everybody to roam around the building. You know, that was the policy before, Peter. If you were a Pentagon reporter, you could just walk around the building. No badge, no escort, no nothing, walk into offices, talk to anybody. Who knows where there's classified information. We're making the rules more like you might say the White House. Can you roam the White House wherever you want?

DOOCY: Typically not without getting a Secret service guy up in my grill.

HEGSETH: So we're just normalizing it.

Hard pass holders will have less free access inside the Pentagon, and military officials will require sign-off from the top to share even unclassified information. A growing number of outlets are refusing to sign. They have until 5pm Wednesday to sign on or turn in their badges…and the stack of badges could be BIG. Yesterday, FOX News joined ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, even Newsmax declining to follow the new rules. So far, only one outlet … One Voice America … has signed on.

Hunter, is this a tempest in a teapot or could press freedoms really be at stake?

BAKER: It just makes a certain amount of sense to me that access should be tightly controlled inside the Pentagon. I just think that it should not be like walking around the halls of Congress or other parts of our government. And so from my perspective, I do think it is commonsensical to maybe regulate that more closely, and to have more precautions that are taken.

EICHER: Hunter Baker is a political scientist and provost at North Greenville University. Hunter, thank you.

BAKER: Thank you.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Up next…a World Tour Special Report from El Salvador.

The country was once overrun by gangs and violent crime. After a massacre in 2022, Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele invoked a series of emergency powers that allowed him to restore order in the country.

NICK EICHER, HOST: But some Salvadorans expect that Bukele’s iron fist is here to stay after more than three years of martial law and the recent removal of term limits.

WORLD Latin America associate correspondent Carlos Páez has the story.

SOUND: [BUKELE RALLY]

CARLOS PAEZ: His fans call him a hero. His foes call him a tyrant. But the self-proclaimed “world’s coolest dictator” seems happy to claim both. At an address to the nation in June, Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele said the most important thing he’s called to do is ensure the nation’s safety.

El Savador went from being the murder capital of the world 10 years ago to one of the safest Latin American countries by 2024, Bukele’s fifth year in office. Last year he secured his reelection with a landslide victory. Despite arresting 85,000 civilians during his tenure, his approval rating among Salvadorans remains well above 80%.

SOUND: [BUKELE’S REELECTION CHANT]

But there’s a darker side to the story. A report this summer from the Public Opinion Institute of Universidad Centroamericana José Simeón Cañas concluded that more than half of Salvadorans fear expressing their political views. In February, Salvadoran authorities began to detain political opponents under questionable allegations of corruption. And in July, Bukele’s New Ideas party passed an amendment removing presidential term limits from the constitution.

A spokesperson for the Association of Salvadoran Journalists… or the APES… told me that restrictions on free speech began as early as 2019, when the newly elected Bukele administration stopped sharing government information with the public. However, hostilities against the press took a sharp turn three years later after Bukele invoked a State of Emergency across the country.

APES: Y bajo el régimen de excepción y bajo, digamos, las políticas punitivas del gobierno salvadoreño, no es posible afirmar que como periodistas tengamos garantías. Y no sólo como periodistas, sino como también ya lo han denunciado defensores de derechos humanos, como lo han denunciado, digamos, abogados… El uso del sistema judicial está en nuestra contra. No existe ninguna garantía de un proceso justo.

ENGLISH TRANSLATION: And under the State of Emergency and, say, the punitive policies of the Salvadoran government, it is not possible to say that we journalists have any guarantees. And not only journalists, but human rights defenders have also denounced this, and lawyers too... The judicial system is working against us. There’s no guarantee of due process.

Under the State of Emergency, people gave up many of their civil liberties as the government battled organized crime. Months later, El Salvador reached the highest incarceration rate per capita in the world. Videos showing thousands of gang members at El Salvador’s Terrorism Confinement Center… or CECOT… have gone viral since then.

But even after soundly defeating the gangs, Bukele has continued to extend his emergency powers. According to the APES Monitoring Center, verbal and physical assaults from state officials to Salvadoran journalists have more than doubled over the past 2 years. Here is their spokesperson once again:

APES:  La misma sociedad que votó por el este presidente…  por el tema de las políticas de seguridad,  también ha comprado el discurso de que los periodistas son enemigos, no de la gestión presidencial, y ... se ha instaurado esta narrativa, ¿no? Y cuando proviene de un político tan popular y de políticos que manejan al dedillo el tema de la publicidad, pues es muy efectivo.

APES TRANSLATION: The same society that voted for this president... for security issues, has also bought into the narrative that journalists are enemies of the presidential administration… This narrative has been established. And when it comes from such a popular politician and from politicians who are experts at advertising themselves, it is very effective.

Journalists are not the only ones facing political persecution. In May, authorities detained human rights attorney Ruth Lopez without an arrest warrant.

BULLOCK: Around the same time, it became evident that there were units in the police that were being used to monitor, surveil and harass journalists and human rights defenders in their homes…

Noah Bullock is the executive director of Cristosal, the leading advocacy group in El Salvador where Lopez used to work. Her forced disappearance was just the beginning of political persecution against the rest of his legal team, now exiled in nearby Guatemala and Honduras.

BULLOCK: And so that kind of led us to feel like we had to choose between exile or prison. And we decided that we were no good to our colleagues who have been detained or to the victims that we accompany if we're also in jail. So we decided to relocate the organization in order to continue our work.

Opposition leader Marcela Villatoro says that following the latest constitutional reforms “democracy in El Salvador has died.” But the democratic backslide began long before this latest episode. Four years ago, Bukele’s party replaced all Constitutional Court justices with loyalists after winning a legislative supermajority. His party cut the National Assembly’s size by almost a third in 2023 and passed a law in January allowing easy changes to the constitution.

Still, Bukele’s mano dura —or hard hand— policies have gained support among other countries struggling with waves of violence. In March, Bukele agreed to imprison Venezuelan immigrants deported from the United States. Costa Rica and Ecuador recently pledged to copy the CECOT prison model. However, Bullock warns against surrendering basic freedoms for the promise of safety.

BULLOCK: It is not true that democracy, that limited government, that rule of law, that human rights themselves are obstacles for government…So I think it's important for people to challenge those assumptions to to try and understand that it's a false choice between what would be called, supposedly the Bukele Model or living in fear of gangs.

Reporting for World Tour, I’m Carlos Páez

NICK EICHER, HOST: Surely you’ve noticed Halloween decorations going up earlier—getting more expensive and more elaborate every year … turning front yards into creepy theme parks. From 12-foot skeletons and animatronic zombies, to oversized front-yard ornaments more appropriate as parade floats.

All of which brings us to suburban Cleveland last week … where Parma Heights police found themselves in hot pursuit of a decoration that had broken loose: a giant pumpkin rolling through the night.

OFFICER: We’re currently struggling with it right now…it’s not … (groans)

Body-cam video shows officers wrestling the blow-up behemoth … trying to keep it from blowing away again.

Finally, they got it pinned down, let the air out, and stuffed it into the back of a squad car.

OFFICER: [Car door slams shut] Yeah, wow. I've never seen that before!

And there you go: Halloween’s hit peak absurdity when even police who’ve seen it all ... see something new.

It’s The World and Everything in It.

NICK EICHER, HOST: Today is Wednesday, October 15th. Thank you for turning to WORLD Radio to help start your day.

Good morning. I’m Nick Eicher.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: And I’m Lindsay Mast.

Coming next on The World and Everything in It: helping the homeless.

Last year, the U.S. Supreme Court heard a case from Grants Pass, Oregon, that approved laws banning homeless encampments. Even so, tent cities remain there — and in many other places. That’s because the case resolved only a single legal question. And not others.

EICHER: It didn’t. Nor did it deal with solutions to homelessness. That’s a task left to those with boots on the ground. WORLD’s Jenny Rough took a tour of the Gospel Rescue Mission in Grants Pass and brings us the story of the man behind the mission.

JENNY ROUGH: Brian Bouteller walks down a muddy embankment by Gilbert Creek in Grants Pass, Oregon.

BRIAN BOUTELLER: I’ve seen people in here pooping in buckets, washing their laundry. I mean, we’ve come in here and cleaned out countless bags of trash outta here.

He points to a small encampment in the trees.

BOUTELLER: If we go down there, we might find drug needles. So watch your footing. Look over here. This is a common hideout.

The spot is a stone’s throw away from the Gospel Rescue Mission, where Bouteller serves as executive director. The Christian homeless shelter has 78 beds for men. Sixty for women and children. Many are empty. Bouteller invites those sleeping nearby to stay at the Mission.

Most refuse.

SOUND: [Train running through Grants Pass]

One freezing cold morning he saw two guys camped across the tracks.

BOUTELLER: I said, guys. And they’re all bundled up in their mummy bags. … There’s breakfast over there right now. I could smell you guys before I crossed the railroad tracks. I mean, I can get you a shower. And they looked at me with straight faces. They sat up in their mummy bags and they said, “Yeah, but we’d have to give up all this.”

“This” meaning no responsibilities.

BOUTELLER: And they said, "We get up whenever we want to. No one tells us what to do. I can smoke if want to smoke, I can drink if I want to drink. And that's the life I want."

Bouteller says to solve the problem of homelessness, it’s important to understand the problem.

He says the problem is not sleeping in parks.

BOUTELLER: Nobody’s upset about sleeping. We’re upset about vandalism and drug use and human victimization of other human beings and theft and all kinds of criminal behavior.

He categorizes the homeless into three groups.

BOUTELLER: People who can leave homelessness and want to. People who can leave homelessness and don’t want to. And people who can’t leave homelessness without some kind of subsidies.

Bouteller says Christian ministries are great for those who want to leave the streets. For those who need subsidies, the Mission is currently building homes and he says Christians could do more here.

For those who can leave homelessness but don’t want to, Bouteller sees a real challenge.

Handouts often make the challenge harder.

BOUTELLER: All these people that want to go out and give sandwiches, and medical care, and tents, and sleeping bags to people who are out in our parks living in the mud. And I’m like, give them not homelessness. Give them homefulness. Instead of just going, I’m going to make you comfortable in the mud. I mean, it’s better than misery in the mud, but it’s still not solving the problem.

When courts stop anti-camping bans from taking effect, the challenge becomes harder still. That’s because anti-camping bans make homelessness difficult. So structure becomes more appealing.

The Mission is a high barrier shelter. A resident has to stay sober.

ROUGH: Is this confiscated alcohol?

BOUTELLER: Yes, yeah.

ROUGH: Syrah. Pinot Grigio. Oh, it’s in plastic bottles, that’s interesting.

Even cigarettes aren’t allowed, though the Mission helps with prescriptions and patches to curb cravings.

BOUTELLER: I don’t think smoking’s a sin. But if you’re not paying your bills, and not taking care of your family, that’s not the time for luxury. Let’s get you to where you’re independent, making so much money that you actually have savings, and now you can afford luxury.

The most difficult rule for many: waking up at 5:30 a.m.

BOUTELLER: If somebody’s been living out on the streets, their sleep pattern is all broken up. They’re up all night. And they’re asleep during the day. I want them to start learning accountability. So they come down for roll call at six. They have to be ready for chapel by seven.

SECRETARY: Ethan?

ETHAN: Here.

SECRETARY: John?

JOHN: Here.

If able, residents work. Bouteller tries to match a person’s talents with a job.

BOUTELLER: This is Chris. Chris is our current chef du jour.

ROUGH: What are you making for dinner tonight?

CHRIS: It’s going to be a cream sauce with ham and peas on shells.

The Mission helps residents set up a checking account, tackle outstanding debts like back child support, and learn money management.

Lights out at 10 p.m. Including electronics.

BOUTELLER: I want them to get back into a rhythm that’s normative. These are the little pieces of the routine that you and I are so used to doing, that we don’t think about them. But they do a tremendous amount to add to succeeding in life and doing well. They add to our flourishing.

Bouteller says it’s incredible to watch a disoriented resident become oriented to a productive life.

BOUTELLER: If the creation mandate for mankind in some way was to take the chaos and make order out of it. Well, here, we’re seeing that happen in their lives here. Even non-Christians who come in and follow the program and even leave non-Christian. They still are blessed by following a Christian way of life.

Critics frame his approach as cruel and coercive. Bouteller doesn’t buy it. One in three residents leave the Mission with a job and housing. Like Eric:

ERIC: I came here. I was an alcoholic. I had been divorced. Lost my job. I didn’t have a penny to my name, I don’t think.

He got clean. Got married. Bought a house. Became a dad. And today, his message to others is: why not give the Mission a try?

ERIC: What have you got to lose? The streets will always be there.

Bouteller says residents like Eric, willing to do the work, become contributors to the community. And so he continues his work too—work that avoids enabling while embracing effective compassion.

Reporting for WORLD, I’m Jenny Rough in Grants Pass, Oregon. 

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Today is Wednesday, October 15th. Good morning! This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Lindsay Mast.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher. There’s a lot of talk right now about the next generation of Christian leaders. But WORLD Commentator Janie B. Cheaney says there’s something the church needs even more.

JANIE B. CHEANEY: Revival is in the air; we’ve been praying for it and hope that the movement of younger generations toward God and the church is more than a short-term fad. Good leadership may help determine its staying power. We need strength, vision, wisdom, perceptiveness—and with all that, humility. Does your local church have such a stellar individual? Yes, it does: her Head.

Well sure, you might say: Christ the Head is perfect, but who’s going to fill the pulpit, minister with patience, and set our direction? Get real!

But who’s more real than Christ? And what’s easier to forget than that we are all His followers, even our leaders? While the training, nurturing and appointing of good leadership is vital, it’s equally important to learn the principles of good followership.

We are rightly wary of blind following, after so many churches and Christian movements have derailed on false leadership. Give a charismatic man a platform, it’ll go straight to his head. Put unquestioned power in his hand, it becomes a weapon. Remember Jim Jones and other less extreme examples who abused their disciples’ trust. Blind following is what happens when personal autonomy is overrun or will is flattened, or when we don’t care enough to be vigilant.

But “followership” is a virtue built on other virtues. It’s positive not negative, active not passive. And it knows, or learns, where to draw the line.

What are those virtues? For one thing, wise submission. Not subjecting to someone’s whim, but humbling oneself under the mighty hand of God, who ordains authorities. Those authorities will not always be right. Neither will we. But where they do not compel outright disobedience to God’s word, our first consideration should be: What would Christ, my ultimate leader, have me do? Resist, or submit?

Another virtue: gratitude. Last week’s sermon may not have been stellar, but there were good reminders in it. I questioned the Bible teacher’s main point, but it made me think. When I doubt a leader’s decision the question is not, What can I tolerate, but What would Christ have me do? Complain, or commend?

Followership is the practical application of service. We call ourselves servants of God, but when it comes to serving Elder Jones, well . . . Does God know the man’s tendency to voice half-considered political opinions? Or his shaky views on the doctrine of Reprobation? Peter held a shaky view of the Atonement when his Master knelt to wash his feet. That example, and the command that they serve one another, was based on nothing but that they all claimed to serve Him.

Finally, good followership relies on trust—in the Head, not the man. If we are in Christ, we can trust His grace to cover honest mistakes. If our leaders take a wrong turn, He can correct them. Even if we throw away some good years following the wrong man, we can refocus on the perfect Man who creates good from evil. That’s His specialty—if we trust Him.

Welcoming new believers into the church means modeling good followership. There is a time to speak up, and a time to shut up. God will supply wisdom to discern when to do which, but the first question remains: What would He have us do? Follow Him.

I’m Janie B. Cheaney.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Tomorrow: IVF is not the only alternative for those struggling with fertility. We have a report on other options. And, one family shows what it means to truly rely on a service dog. That and more tomorrow.

I’m Lindsay Mast.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher.

The World and Everything in It comes to you from WORLD Radio. WORLD’s mission is Biblically objective journalism that informs, educates, and inspires.

The Psalmist writes: “Let the sea roar, and all that fills it; the world and those who dwell in it! Let the rivers clap their hands; let the hills sing for joy together before the Lord, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world with righteousness, and the peoples with equity.” —Psalm 98:7-9

Go now in grace and peace.

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