The World and Everything in It: February 7th, 2025

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Good morning!

The U-S is less than ten years away from a shrinking population, according to a government agency. What’s behind that prediction?

LINDSAY MAST, HOST:  Also, protecting girls sports, building up men and boys, and Super Bowl fifty nine. It’s all ahead on Culture Friday with John Stonestreet.

BROWN: Plus, divine appointments on Ask the Editor.

And WORLD’s Steve West talks with influential Christian artist and producer: Charlie Peacock.

PEACOCK: My calling is to be God's musical person everywhere and in everything,

MAST: And the music industry recognizes a worship song during the Grammys.

BROWN: It’s Friday, February 7th. This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Myrna Brown.

MAST: And I’m Lindsay Mast. Good morning!

BROWN: Up next, Kent Covington with today’s news.

KENT COVINGTON, NEWS ANCHOR: Trump prayer breakfast, announcements » President Trump says he’s taking several steps to defend religious liberty in America.

TRUMP:  I will be creating a brand new presidential commission on religious liberty. It's going to be a very big deal, which will work tirelessly to uphold this most fundamental right.

He made that announcement during remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast Thursday in Washington.

He also said he’s tapping Attorney General Pam Bondi to lead a Justice Department task force to root anti-Christian bias.

And the president shared a little bit about his own faith journey … opening up about surviving an assassination attempt last year.

TRUMP:   It changed something in me. I feel I feel even stronger. I believed in God, but I feel I feel much more strongly about it. Something happened. So thank you.

The Trump administration also plans to open a dedicated faith office at the White House.

Judge order on employee buyouts / Court DOGE order » A federal judge in Boston on Thursday extended a midnight deadline for federal workers to accept a buyout offer to resign.

The Trump administration, looking to shrink the size of the federal workforce, made an offer to some 2-million federal employees: If they quit now, they’ll be paid through this fiscal year, expiring at the end of September.

White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt:

LEAVITT:  There was more than 40,000 individuals, federal workers, who had accepted the buyout program. We expect that number to increase.

That, she said, will save taxpayers tens of millions of dollars annually.

District Judge George O'Toole has set a hearing for Monday.

A union representing federal employees sued, challenging the legality of the program.

DOJ sues Chicago over sanctuary policies » The Justice Department filing a lawsuit against Chicago over policies in the city that block local police from cooperating with federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Border czar Tom Homan said many immigrant families are against sanctuary polices.

HOMAN: They don't want a predator in their neighborhood released back in the community. So, you know, we're going to hold Sanctuary City's accountable. We're going to take them on and we'll take them to court.

Some legal experts believe the Chicago lawsuit could ultimately result in the U.S. Supreme Court weighing in on the constitutionality of sanctuary laws and policies.

The White House has also threatened to cut federal funds to sanctuary cities.

Panama Canal update » Panamanian President Jose Raul Molino is contradicting a statement from the U.S. State Department. He says he did not tell Secretary of State Marco Rubio that US Warships could transit the Panama Canal at no cost.

Molino says he does not have the legal or constitutional authority to do that.

The US built the canal and signed over control of it to Panama under a 1977 treaty. And Secretary Rubio said Thursday:

RUBIO: That treaty obligation would have to be enforced by the armed forces of the United States, particularly the U. S. Navy. I find it absurd that we would have to pay fees to transit a zone that we are obligated to protect.

But Panama has confirmed that it is scaling back Chinese influence at the port. The country’s involvement in a Chinese infrastructure program had been another major point of contention with the Trump White House.

Russell Vought confirmation vote » At the Capitol last night:

AUDIO: The yeas are 53. The nays are 47. The nomination is confirmed.

The Senate voted down party lines to confirm Russell Vought as White House budget director.

The vote came after Democrats had exhausted their only remaining tool to stonewall a nomination — holding the Senate floor throughout the previous night and day with a series of speeches.

Netanyahu meets with lawmakers » Elsewhere on Capitol Hill, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited with lawmakers on his third day of meetings in Washington.

He visited the White House and the Pentagon earlier this week.

NETANYAHU: [Speaking Hebrew]

Speaking in Hebrew, the prime minister says members of Congress from both major parties expressed their support for Israel. He says they also agreed that Hamas must be destroyed and that Iran must never have a nuclear weapon.

Trump ICC sanctions » And with Netanyahu in town, President Trump has signed an executive order imposing sanctions on the International Criminal Court. WORLD’s Kristen Flavin has more.

KRISTEN FLAVIN: The president signed the order at the White House on Thursday.

He cited what called "illegitimate and baseless actions targeting America and our close ally Israel."

Last year, the ICC issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and former Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant … after accusing Israel of war crimes during the war in Gaza.

The court also announced an investigation of what it called possible war crimes by U.S. personnel in Afghanistan.

Neither the U.S. nor Israel have ever recognized the ICC’s authority.

For WORLD, I’m Kristen Flavin.

I’m Kent Covington.

Straight ahead: Culture Friday with John Stonestreet.

Plus, a conversation with musician Charlie Peacock.

This is The World and Everything in It.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: It’s Friday the 7th of February.

Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Lindsay Mast.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown

It’s Culture Friday. Joining us now is John Stonestreet … president of the Colson Center and host of the Breakpoint podcast. Good morning!

JOHN STONESTREET: Good morning!

BROWN: John, let’s start with a recent report from the nonpartisan agency, the U S Congressional Budget Office. What caught my eye…the predictions: By 2033, annual deaths will exceed annual births in this country. And that’s because fertility rates are projected to remain too low for a generation to replace itself.

How much of this has to do with the cultural anti-children. anti-family narrative?

STONESTREET: You know, this might be the greatest existential threat to Western culture of our lifetime certainly. But at the end of the day, as a friend of mine says, “This isn't magic, it’s math.” This is just straight forward. If you don’t have babies, you cannot sustain your civilization, period.

To your question of how much this has to do with the kind of wider narrative of not being pro-children and certainly not being pro-family—I think there are a number of other trend lines that you can lay across this one and it basically mirrors. And that is the dramatic decline in marriage, the dramatic increase in age before people get married. I mean, you can even just look at the growth of ridiculously expensive pet products. That also points to the fact that we’re replacing our kids with pets.

There’s just too many consequences to name. The loss of a culture is the larger one. But you’re talking about the economic pyramid being reversed, not having enough workers to support institutions or to support a social safety net.

I thought it was striking that Vice President JD Vance addressed some of this—not directly—at the March for Life. Now, of course, if you’ve ever been to the March for Life, you know, at the March for Life is basically everyone who’s an exception to this rule. I mean, there’s lots of kids at the March for Life, and lots of families with lots of kids, but it was interesting where he talked about the issue of abortion being part of a larger conversation about valuing family and doing things policy wise that do make it easier to have children, and even incentivize having children. Because in terms of long term prosperity and productivity, it’s kind of a necessary thing.

There was a time when I thought homeschoolers really were going to save the world, and this was the way they were going to do it, and they’re still having more kids on average. But it’s not the same, and it’s not enough to replace this enormous dearth and of course, it’s not just the United States. This is across the western world.

MAST: The Governor of Maryland said this week he wants to focus on uplifting men and boys, which sounds great. But part of the plan would be by making it easier for individuals who violate parole to have their records expunged, ostensibly making it easier to get jobs despite having been convicted of a crime. So what’s your take? Is this the way to uplift men and boys?

STONESTREET: You know, it could be, honestly and because there is a way—and this is something obviously that was near and dear to the heart of Chuck Colson—which is that we reframe our understanding of the justice system, not only to bring justice to people who need it but to also bring reconciliation to people who need it in relationships. So, kind of the strategy of being tough on crime sometimes reduced the understanding of crime to a criminal in the state, as if those were the only two parties that were involved in this. A criminal doesn’t commit a crime against the state. The state often acts like it’s the one that got offended. Sometimes it did, but most of the time, it’s happened to another—another member of the community, which creates a break in trust. And you can actually then figure out, well, we’re talking about not two parties, we’re talking about at least four parties, and there’s broken relationships all the way through it, and that’s what restoration actually looks like. And the vast majority, we’ve got to figure this out. The vast majority of people who do commit crimes aren't going to be a way for life, certainly not going to be executed. We wouldn’t say that it’s just if we executed everyone committed for a crime. So then that means at the end of the day, we’re returning people to our communities. So how do we do that? Of actually having a real strategy for restoration, which has to involve reconciliation and dealing with real parties. So this isn’t a choice.

I want to be really careful. I’m talking about the way we’ve done tough on crime, and then in reaction, it’s almost like all the way on the other side. We just want to be soft on crime, and then pretend that crime isn’t crime, and as long as the state says, “Well, I’m okay with it,” then nothing else needs to be done. There’s not a way forward, unless you repair relationships, unless restoration takes place.

The state alone can’t do that. This is why the church has played such a strategic role in lives. And then you also then have to have a vision for what a whole life is. This, by the way, is the same fundamental problem that plagues education in America, is we give a whole bunch of people an education without a clear understanding of what it is that we’re aiming for.

It’s kind of like deciding, you know what, I’m going to buy a bunch of computer parts and build computers. And you say, “Well, what’s your blueprint? What’s your goal? What's the computer going to look like?” I don’t know, I’m just going to throw the parts together, see how it goes. What kind of computer is that going to be? It’s not going to be a good one. So what we want to know is, what’s the goal? What are we aiming for? What does a whole restored life look like? What does a restored community look like? What does an uplifted man or boy, to use the language here of the Governor of Maryland, what does that look like? And then that’ll help you know what ingredients need to be. And spoiler alert, one of the ingredients is going to be dads. There’s not going to be a way to uplift men and boys without dads. There is none. Like, that's like trying to build a computer without a hard drive. It’s not going to actually be a computer at the end of the day. You’re not going to get to strong and restored men without dads or surrogate dads, at least.

MAST: In the past few days, we’ve had an executive order from President Trump barring transgender athletes from women’s sports. We’ve had former swimmers for the University of Pennsylvania filing a lawsuit against that university, Harvard, the Ivy League Council of Presidents and the NCAA over their experience sharing a team with transgender swimmer Lia (or William) Thomas. And where I live in Georgia, the Republican House Speaker introduced legislation that would protect girls from having to compete against boys and men in high school and college sports here.

So, sometimes it seems like we are headed toward some resolution in this matter: we know most Americans don’t support men competing against women in sports, and yet if we still need executive orders and lawsuits and bills, maybe we’ve not yet turned the corner. I’m curious as to your thoughts on where we are on the road back to reality?

STONESTREET: Well, we’re in a better place than we were six months ago, so let’s start there. And we’re in a better place than we were 12 months ago, and a lot of it has to do with courage. I said it on this program about another executive order—I think last week or the week before—that we have a lot of people to thank: Billboard Chris and JK Rowling and certainly Matt Walsh, because they were courageous, they were clear, they fought, they paid a lot of social costs for it.

What nags me over and over on this is that the church was so late to the game. And I mean that there were a lot of Christians that were right up front and were articulate and saying it. But man, this was one, folks, we dropped the ball on. We just didn't want to speak out, we didn’t want to offend people or whatever, and we didn’t stand up for the women. And I just look throughout history and see how the church stood up for women all the way through every time we collided with a pagan, harmful culture. And this one—there’s a lot, lot of folks that sat it out. So I think there are folks we should thank and there are folks that should be ashamed.

So we’re in a better place. And we did need an executive order in this case, but we’re still in the same place. And another way of saying it: you live by the executive order and then you die by the executive order. I mean, look, the first one that started all this, this is what, the third, or the fourth, specifically dealing with this issue from this administration. And it’s been, what, a couple weeks? But the first one came out the first day, which is, as far as the American government is concerned, there’s men and there’s women. And you know what? We needed that. We needed that executive order because of the aggressive way the false ideas about gender were being forced on all of us and so many different ways in so many different government agencies.

But then you’re looking at, are we really at a place where every four years we're going to redefine what a woman is? And are we really at a place where every four years the NCAA is going to go over here, and then going to go over there, and then all the State High School Associations are going to go one way? Is that really where we’re at? That’s a dizzying place to be, and that is an unsustainable place to be in the long run. I hope we’re not there. I hope that this is just the start, and there will be enough kind of cultural ballast to put up, in between now and then … great thinking, great planning, a way of recognizing, maybe wonderful medical help for young people struggling with gender dysphoria. And what I mean by that is real help, not the mutilation that goes by the name “care.” That’s what we need to beef it up. We don’t want to be a nation ruled by executive orders. That’s not a sustainable path.

BROWN: It’s Super Bowl Sunday and I want to talk commercials …Two best friends from the Christian University, Biola, created one of the top three Doritos ads for the Crash the Super Bowl Contest. Millions of eyes will be on their spot, called “Abduction,” and they’re quoted saying, “Our biggest takeaway is that you can truly achieve your wildest dreams so long as you never lose faith in yourself, your vision, your loved ones, your community and God.”

BROWN: John, do you think they’ll use their 60 second platform for Jesus?

STONESTREET: You know, I love when young people do something super creative so kudos to these students. Shout out to Biola, in so many ways, such a great school. As far as, am I watching the game? The answer is yes. Who am I rooting for? The answer is no one, because I saw this game last year. And no, no, no, I'm not as cynical as most Americans. I think it’s interesting. I mean, you have a quarterback at the top of his game and you have a running back on the other side, at the top of his game. Both are not just doing remarkable things, but spectacular things. So, as someone who doesn't have a vested interest, I had my hopes artificially inflated with the Washington commanders, and then dashed. But, hope for the future. This promises to be an interesting game, and I think it’s exciting. And there are people on both sides of the ball who have sincere faiths and have expressed that. So I think we can expect to see some of it.

BROWN: John Stonestreet is president of the Colson Center and host of the Breakpoint podcast. Thanks, John!

STONESTREET: Thank you both.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Today is Friday, February 7th.

Thank you for turning to WORLD Radio to help start your day.

Good morning. I’m Lindsay Mast.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown.

Charlie Peacock is a musician and music producer based in Nashville. He’s a 40 year veteran of the music industry—working with a variety of musical styles. But few artists have wrestled with the intersection of faith and art as he has. WORLD Reporter Steve West had an opportunity to talk with him late last year about his memoir titled Roots and Rhythm, released earlier this week.

MUSIC: [EVERY HEARTBEAT]

STEVE WEST: Some listeners may remember this Grammy winning, 1991 chart-topping song sung by Amy Grant. But less known is that Charlie Peacock co-wrote “Every Heartbeat” with Grant and Wayne Kirkpatrick, arranged the track, and played keyboards on it.

It’s just one of the many recordings Peacock issued, produced, or appeared on during his decades of work in the music industry. From 1989 to 1999 alone—Peacock’s Nashville Christian music decade—he produced more than 70 recordings, had over 1,000 credits on albums and singles, and garnered six Grammy Awards. Christian music artists like Sara Groves and Switchfoot and mainstream artists The Civil Wars and Holly Williams saw projects come to fruition under his direction.

As he explains in his memoir, his story didn’t begin in Nashville but in the Northern California farming country of Yorba City. It’s a place and time he credits with making him the kind of artist he became as he spent time with grandparents who were subsistence farmers.

CHARLIE PEACOCK: I think it made me one kind of artist and not another, because I think it stimulated my imagination in ways that they wouldn't have been ….[T]hey didn't have the kind of … intellectual verbal prowess that comes often with people that are intellectuals, but they had an intelligence that was off the charts in terms of survival and in terms of imagination, and I think growing up in that kind of place made me a particular kind of artist.

Music, particularly jazz, became an early obsession. Peacock performed regular gigs in the Sacramento and Bay areas, both as a supporting musician and with the Charlie Peacock Group.

MUSIC: [NO MAGAZINES]

But alcohol, drugs, and Beat writer Jack Keroauc were also influential. He writes in Roots and Rhythm that “there was a nonconformist artist just starting inside my teenage self, and Keroauc put language to it.” He later realized that the Dharma Bum was a poor surrogate parent.

After marrying his high school sweetheart Andi at the age of 18, and with their home lives unraveling, he faced the hardscrabble existence of a musician with responsibilities. It was a time he describes as “seven years of youthful fails, uncertainty, chaos, blood-dripping wounds, and deep trauma and pain undealt with.”

It was a fellow musician, jazz saxophonist Mike Butera, who supplied the missing piece: the Gospel.

MUSIC: [THE WAY OF LOVE]

PEACOCK: [T]here was like a line drawn in the sand of my life. And you know, I knew that if I stepped over it into this life with Jesus, life truly would never be the same .… And that just infused my life with meaning and purpose and direction in such a phenomenal way …. I really met my match in Jesus in terms of the interconnectedness and … just seamless integrity of his message and invitation, and then how it worked with everything that I had seen in creation and how I had adopted that as an artist. So it was kind of like just the lights came on.

By the early ’8os, Peacock was spending less time with the Sacramento art crowd. He joined a thriving alternative Christian music scene fostered by Sacramento-based Warehouse Christian Ministries, releasing his own records and producing others.

MUSIC: [WATCHING ETERNITY]

But it was after parting ways with Warehouse in the late ’80s that his career took off. He moved to Nashville with Andi and began a full stable of music production work. Among the artists he worked with were Margaret Becker, Out of the Grey, and Twila Paris. And yet after a decade of work in the Contemporary Christian Music genre, he took a hiatus.

PEACOCK: When I came here, I realized, oh my gosh. You know, I love that I'm around all these brothers and sisters. But also, I didn't realize, “Oh, they've created this genre of music, right?” And they think it's the highest and best use of music, and they're monetizing it and focusing all of this branding and marketing energy on it.

That’s when he decided that working exclusively in the contemporary Christian music business was not where God would have him be.

PEACOCK: You know, that's not my calling. My calling is to be God's musical person everywhere and in everything, in as much as he calls me to that which was a completely different model for following Christ and artistry than this mechanism of what was called contemporary Christian music …. [E]ven though I was delighted to be there, working with the people and making music and all of that, but just systematically, … incrementally, year after year, it just became like, I just can't do this anymore. And that … was a big turning point.

What came next was a year’s stint in seminary, heading up a commercial music program at Lipscomb University, and a series of jazz albums that harkened back to his roots in music. In short: more feverish work, more striving to succeed.

MUSIC: [FRANK THE MARXIST MEMORIAL GONG BLUES]

He writes: “In my early 60s, I began to accept the life I had lived: five decades of festering anger, exhausting hypervigilance, a fierce survival instinct, and the unrelenting need to protect and provide for my family, no matter the cost.”

It took an eight-year neurological disorder called “central sensitization”, manifesting in a 24/7 headache, to help bring Peacock to a place of peace. He says the reduced endurance and energy he’s left with has allowed him to put his “empire-building and -maintaining” behind him.

PEACOCK: I've changed so much …. [I]t created space and time … for reflection, put me in the place of many great teachers and people whom God has … appointed for healing …. [I]t caused me to work on things like generational trauma and anger and to put those things before God in prayer.

Like his memoir, last August’s album release of the rootsy, faith-filled Every Kind of Uh-Oh was its own looking back, and a suggestion of what was to come. The lead cut recounts his first date with wife Andi at the age of 15.

MUSIC: [TURTLE IN A CHINESE FOOD BOX]

You wouldn’t know Peacock’s dialed back, and he’s certainly not retired. Since August last year, he released three projects: Every Kind of Uh-Oh, an album of hooky, pop songs titled Big Hope, Big Love, Big Everything—as well as the EP Mad Funky and Some Chill. Not to mention his career-capping memoir.

MUSIC: [GET YOURSELF SOME]

There’s a confessional nature to Every Kind of Uh-Oh. Writing a memoir is a way of reminding yourself who you are as well as a summing up of one’s life, of saying what matters. So perhaps it’s natural that the songs on the album echo that as well.

PEACOCK: It's a yielding to wanting to make a statement at this time of life, after having done a lot of music outside the realm of explicit profession, to just say again … at 68 years of age … I've always been following. This is who I am, you know ….[I]n the song, “Get Yourself Some,” that's very evident.

I’m Steve West.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Today is Friday, February 7th. Good morning! This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Myrna Brown.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: And I’m Lindsay Mast. Up next, Ask the Editor for the month of February. Today, WORLD Radio executive producer Paul Butler ponders our news coverage decisions and divine listening appointments.

PAUL BUTLER: On Monday, January 6th I got a text from WORLD Correspondent Caleb Welde.

SOUND: [TEXT ALERT]

I had assigned him the January 27th History Book segment.

The text was his pitch to cover "The Cambridge Seven." College students who left for China 140 years ago. I thought it was the perfect topic. A story WORLD listeners would enjoy learning more about. Caleb got to work. I didn’t hear much from him for weeks.

Then on January 21st, less than a week before air, I get another text from Caleb.

SOUND: [TEXT ALERT]

“Hey Paul quick update on the Cambridge Seven story… came down with the flu—the hazmat kind…” he tells me that the first draft of the script will probably be late. No problem. It’s jJust another day at the office.

Then the next day.

SOUND: [TEXT ALERT]

Another text. This time, a voice note:

CALEB WELDE: Hey Paul, Caleb here. Wanted to touch base on the Cambridge Seven story running it into a number of problems. Probably the main one is I've not been able to find an expert…

We’re only a few days from our hard deadline…we need something. So Caleb suggests “a hard left-hand turn.”

WELDE: My best alternate suggestion is on the Columbia disaster.

But there’s a catch…we’d already covered that story in 2023…Caleb has a plan…

WELDE: I would like to focus on the Christianity of one or two of the crewmembers…potentially just do the story on a guy named Rick Husband.

He had found an interview posted to YouTube that Rick had recorded before his flight.

WELDE: It looks like a strong Christian family man. Left recorded devotionals for his family every day...

He also found a video of the commander’s wife telling her side of events.

We had a story. We had audio. It was go time.

AUDIO: [CLIP HISTORY BOOK]

It may not have been our first option, but it was a great “Plan B.”

Turns out…it wasn’t “Plan B” at all…

EVELYN THOMPSON: My name is Evelyn Husband Thompson. Do you want more? I live in Houston, Texas.

Eveyln is Rick Husband’s widow. When we wrote and produced the History Book segment on the Columbia disaster we used available interviews online…we didn’t reach out to her because of the tight deadline.

Turns out Evelyn has a friend who listens to the program faithfully:

THOMPSON: And she contacted me and said she was getting ready for the day and all of a sudden could hear Rick talking to her…it's a surprise to hear someone's voice after all those many years, but she recognized it instantly.

Evelyn has since remarried. A widower from her church.

THOMPSON: It's amazing to get to hear his voice... I laughed because I thought, he had such a Texas accent. … Very surreal to be holding my husband Bill's hand to listen to Rick. It's a little bit of a shock, but it's also bittersweet...

Eveyln says that she’s lost count of how many times over the years she’s told her family’s story of sudden loss…but her faith is strong. And she always talks of the hope of the gospel, Rick’s love of Christ, and how their faith is the most important thing to them.

She says however, that part of their story often ends up on the cutting room floor.

THOMPSON: And so I'm just very grateful for WORLD that they conveyed that message because that was what Rick treasured in his heart and what I treasure in mine.

Evelyn admits that she often mourns the loss for her kids…growing up without knowing their dad. But she tearfully told me her daughter was blessed to get to know her dad a bit more through last Monday’s History Book.

THOMPSON: Laura listened to it first and was very moved and touched by it. And I think she maybe even heard different comments from her dad that maybe she hadn't heard before. It was very inspiring. Very endearing for her to hear, hear what he shared, even his vulnerability of, of sinning, I mean, of lying on the application and just the process that the Lord took him through.

Unexpected and encouraging words…but it gets better. They weren’t just for a widow, and her kids…Evelyn’s daughter is currently dating a young man…a young man who will never meet his girlfriend’s father. But he got to listen to him in our story.

THOMPSON: And it just really ministered to him, which was just phenomenal to me because they will never actually have a physical conversation with each other. And yet he was able to almost sit in and have a conversation or at least listen to Rick's testimony firsthand. It just really moved him and it really moved me that it moved him. I was just overwhelmed by that, just the rippling effect of someone's testimony.

In the weeks ahead, I hope to share more of Eveyln’s story with you. But one more thought as we end today.

In this business, we often wish for those viral moments…when a story is read or shared by millions of people. But this week I’ve been encouraged in my own faith that while we may make plans, it’s God who directs our steps. We may have thousands of people listen to a story…yet sometimes God has ordained it special for only a few. And the rest of us just have the privilege of listening in.

THOMPSON: It's phenomenal to me how it cuts through time and space and not trying to, to, be cute with that comment, because it's very thought provoking to me that the word of God, completely overshadows time.

For Rick to be sharing his testimony and talking about the impact the Lord has had in his life and the convictions that he has had and what matters most to him is timeless.

And so it's very exciting to me to still have that word shared from him and for me to be able to do that as well.

For WORLD, I’m Paul Butler.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: As we end the week, one more short story before we go.

Celebrities gathered in Los Angeles last Sunday for the 2025 Grammy Awards, recognizing the best songs, albums, and artists from the previous year—across the music industry.

WORLD’s Christina Grube has more on one special honoree.

CHRISTINA GRUBE: It was a big night for mainstream performers like Beyonce and Kendrick Lamar…but perhaps more so for Gospel singer CeCe Winans.

MUSIC: [MORE THAN THIS]

The 60-year-old singer won two Grammys. One for Best Gospel Album with her latest release More Than This.

Winans also won the Grammy for Best Performance/Song in Contemporary Christian Music for her performance of “That’s My King”

MUSIC: [THAT’S MY KING]

Winans faced stiff competition in both categories, going up against big-name artists like Bethel Music, Elevation Worship, and Chandler Moore.

The “Goodness of God” singer now counts 15 Grammys to her name…that's more wins than Madonna, Whitney Houston, and Brittany Spears combined, and one more than today’s top-pop girl, Taylor Swift (14).

Winans didn’t make it to the Sunday award ceremony; the song’s four co-writers took the stage instead – Taylor Agan, Kellie Gamble, Lloyd Nicks and Jess Russ.

JESS RUSS: This song was written by a bunch of strangers who became family in a room, and the room was full of joy. God is kind.

Winans released a video later that night — grateful for the recognition, but aware of what’s more important:

CECE WINANS: I love you and I count it an honor and a privilege to be a part of God's family, advancing the kingdom of God. And I am so blessed by what God has already done, but I'm more excited about what he's going to continue to do for His glory.

Reporting for WORLD, I’m Christina Grube.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Well, it’s time to say thanks to the team who helped out this week.

Nick Eicher, Mary Reichard, David Bahnsen, Emma Perley, Travis Kircher, Andrew Walker, Leo Briceno, Onize Oduah, Amy Lewis, Janie B. Cheaney, Addie Offereins, Anna Johansen Brown, Kim Henderson, Cal Thomas, John Stonestreet, Steve West, and Christina Grube.

Thanks also to our breaking news team: Kent Covington, Lynde Langdon, Steve Kloosterman, Lauren Canterberry, and Josh Schumacher.

And a big thanks to the guys who stay up late to get the program to you early: Carl Peetz and Benj Eicher.

I’m Lindsay Mast.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown.

Harrison Watters is Washington producer, senior producer Kristen Flavin is features editor, Paul Butler executive producer, and Les Sillars editor-in-chief.

The World and Everything in It comes to you from WORLD Radio. WORLD’s mission is Biblically objective journalism that informs, educates, and inspires.

The Psalmist writes: “Let those who delight in my righteousness shout for joy and be glad and say evermore, ‘Great is the Lord, who delights in the welfare of his servant!’ Then my tongue shall tell of your righteousness and of your praise all the day long.” —Psalms 35:27-28

Remember, to worship our King with your brothers and sisters in Christ in church on the Lord’s Day! Just as the Scripture says to do.

And, Lord willing, we’ll meet you right back here on Monday.

Go now in grace and peace.

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