The World and Everything in It: December 10, 2025

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LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Good morning!

Today on Washington Wednesday.

A modern Monroe Doctrine on foreign policy.

HEGSETH: We will deter war. We will advance our interests. We will defend our people.

NICK EICHER, HOST: Hunter Baker is standing by to talk about that and more.

Also today, WORLD Tour.

And later, author Lee Strobel explains why he thinks examining modern miracle stories is so important.

STROBEL: I think we impoverish ourselves by suppressing the evidence that God is still active in this world.

And WORLD commentator Janie B. Cheaney on living in silence.

MAST: It’s Wednesday, December 10th. This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Lindsay Mast.

EICHER: And I’m Nick Eicher. Good morning!

MAST: Up next, Kent Covington with today’s news.

KENT COVINGTON, NEWS ANCHOR: Ukraine latest » 2025 has been one of the deadliest years ever for the people of Ukraine. That’s what U.N. official Tomaž Lovrenčič told leaders at a UN Security Council meeting Tuesday:

LOVRENCIC: In the past, most victims in mine affected countries were injured from below, by stepping on a device buried in the ground. Today in Ukraine, injuries increasingly come from above.

Russia ramping up drone attacks, which is widely blamed, at least in part, for the higher number of civilians killed from January to November of this year — an increase of more than 20% over the same period last year.

Meanwhile, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy is ready to submit a revised version of a U.S.-backed ceasefire plan.

President Trump criticized Zelenskyy Tuesday, accusing him of not taking the original ceasefire plan seriously.

TRUMP: It would be nice if he would read it, you know? A lot of people are dying. It would be really good if he would read it. His people really loved the proposal. They really liked it. His lieutenants -- his top people. They liked it. But they said he hasn't read it yet.

Zelenskyy has said Ukraine is not interested in any proposal that would cede territory to Russia.

U.S.-Venezuela » Democrats on Capitol Hill are ramping up pressure on the Trump administration to release video footage of a military strike against a cartel drug boat near Venezuela.

They’re focused on a follow-up strike, which killed two survivors of the initial blast after their boat capsized. Some are questioning whether that was necessary or legal.

House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries called out Pentagon chief Pete Hegseth.

JEFFRIES:  If Pete Hegseth and administration think that their actions are justifiable, what are they hiding?

A handful of Republicans are joining the call to release the video. President Trump says he’s leaving it up to Hegseth as to whether it will be released.

Lawmakers plan to question the admiral who oversaw the strike. But White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt says there is no wrongdoing here, and that the strikes were conducted:

LEAVITT: Within the law, following the orders from their commander in chief. And let's not forget, these are drug boats. These are narco terrorists.

The administration says those aboard the boat were members of the Tren de Aragua cartel which the president has designated as a foreign terrorist organization.

Trump touts economic direction / Fed announcement on Wednesday  » President Trump road-tested his messaging on the economy last night in Pennsylvania telling supporters that his policies are helping to bring costs down and create jobs.

TRUMP:  Since by inauguration we've created nearly 60,000 new Pennsylvania jobs, including 4,000 Pennsylvania manufacturing jobs that the Democrats gave up on.

In a campaign style event, Trump said he’s working to dig out of an economic hold created by his predecessor.

His trip to Pennsylvania, a critical state in next year's midterms, was meant to lay out what his administration has done and is doing to lower prices. And the president declared that the economy is strong and on the right track.

But Democratic Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro, responded calling Trump’s message an alternate reality that won't make life more affordable for families

Judge grants Ghislaine Maxwell unsealing » A federal judge in New York has cleared the way for the Justice Department to release grand jury transcripts and other records from Ghislaine Maxwell’s sex-trafficking case. WORLD’s Benjamin Eicher reports:

BENJAMIN EICHER: The move comes under a new law that requires the government to open its files on Jeffrey Epstein and his network.

But the judge says people shouldn’t expect major new details. Judge Paul Engelmayer says the records do not name anyone besides Epstein and Maxwell as having sexual contact with a minor, and they do not identify any “clients.”

The Justice Department is now working to lift secrecy orders in both the Maxwell and Epstein cases.

Maxwell’s records could be made public within about ten days.

Engelmayer is the second judge to act under the new transparency law.

For WORLD, I’m Benjamin Eicher.

Hearing on protecting kids online » How to protect kids from online predators. That was the focus of a Senate hearing Tuesday.

Members of the Judiciary Committee heard some disturbing and emotional testimony, including from a mother, Tamia Woods.

Her teenage son, James, committed suicide after being extorted online. He connected with what he thought was a girl on Instagram turned out to be a predator who convinced him to share nude images of himself.

WOODS: They escalated, sending his image to friends and family, telling him he would be labeled a pedophile, telling him his future was over. Telling him you should just kill yourself.

Republican Chairman Chuck Grassley and the committee’s top Democrat Dick Durbin responded by introducing three bills aimed at tougher penalties for online child exploitation.

Their proposals include a new crime for coercing minors to harm themselves or others and increased sentences for traffickers and extortion networks.

Australia kids social media ban » Meantime, in Australia, children, including most teenagers, are now barred from having social media accounts under a new law that took effect this morning.

Children under the age of 16 are blocked from platforms like Instagram, TikTok, and Reddit.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese:

ALBANESE: There is no doubt when we look at the rise in mental health issues faced by young people, when we look at the social harm which has been caused by social media, that we want kids to have the opportunity to enjoy their childhood.

Social media platforms are responsible for blocking users under 16, and risk fines of more than $30 million if they fail to do so.

I'm Kent Covington.

Straight ahead: Washington Wednesday with Hunter Baker, Onize Oduah has an international news roundup on World Tour, and our conversation with Lee Strobel.

This is The World and Everything in It. 

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: It’s Wednesday, December 10th. Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Lindsay Mast.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher. Time now for Washington Wednesday!

Today we begin with the political fight that drove a 43-day government shutdown this fall—and a deadline that’s still very much in front of Congress.

Obamacare subsidies are scheduled to expire at the end of this year. Democrats had pushed hard to include an extension in a temporary funding bill to keep the government open. Republicans refused. And from October 1st to November 12th, much of the federal government shut down over that standoff.

MAST: The shutdown ended when Democrats dropped their demand… and Republicans agreed to allow a vote on subsidies this month. Democrats now want a three-year extension. Some Republicans prefer a shorter or more limited version. Others oppose an extension altogether. But the clock is ticking: if Congress does nothing before December 31st, millions of Americans will see higher premiums in 2026.

OBAMA: I am not the first president to take up this cause, but I am determined to be the last [applause]

EICHER: President Barack Obama back in 2009, pitching Congress on the Affordable Care Act as a way to bring security—and affordability—to American healthcare.

Not a single Republican in the House or the Senate voted for it. New York Times reporter Peter Baker remembers.

BAKER: It was obviously a big moment of success for President Obama getting it passed, but it sowed the seeds for years of division.

The seeds were the likelihood of exploding costs. Even after the bill passed, President Obama worked to recalibrate expectations.

OBAMA: This legislation will not fix everything that ails our healthcare system but it moves us decisively in the right direction.

MAST: Meaning, the argument is not over whether we’ll have the taxpayer picking up the cost of healthcare, but how much they’ll have to pick up.

REPORTER: The subsidies have grown a lot from about $50 billion a year in 2020 to more than $120 billion now. Just since COVID, American taxpayers have spent around $440 billion on subsidies entirely…

EICHER: Republicans won the shutdown debate, but lost the bigger argument. So now in the Senate, the GOP has put forward several competing ideas for extending the expiring Obamacare subsidies.

MAST: One group in the Senate—led by Republicans Susan Collins and Bernie Moreno—wants a two-year extension with new income limits and a required minimum premium per month.

EICHER: Another plan from Republicans Bill Cassidy and Mike Crapo would route subsidy dollars directly to consumers through Health Savings Accounts, among other things. House Republicans may introduce a separate plan, but no one’s unified around any single approach.

Joining us now is political scientist Hunter Baker. Morning, Hunter.

BAKER: Good morning.

EICHER: So, Hunter, we’re back at not whether we subsidize health insurance, but by how much. What does this tell you about the way Republicans see things now?

BAKER: I think that what they understand is that Americans are about to see a significant increase in the cost of health insurance. And I actually think that this is going to happen not only to people who have been benefiting from Obamacare subsidies, but from people generally in the market. And I think that they're looking at that and they're thinking, we cannot be seen to just have our hands in our pockets doing nothing. And so that's why they're going to be trying to come up with some sort of answer on health care. But I don't think it's going to be enough. I think that we are in a bit of a crisis spiral with regard to the Affordable Care Act and sort of the revolution that it wrought in American health insurance. I don't know if that's sooner or later, but eventually it's going to prove to be kind of an unsustainable system. And we're going to be driven in one of two directions. I think that the first direction would be Republicans trying to push in a more market-oriented system where people basically pay for their ordinary health care the same way they pay for auto maintenance or something like that. I mean, you've got a cold, you go, you buy the service. But if you have something serious, cancer, you know, heart problems, something like that, then maybe there's a bigger sort of catastrophic type of insurance policy that people carry. I think that's the direction the Republicans would like to go. I think the Democrats would like to go to single payer, and I think we're going to go in one of those two directions, ultimately.

MAST: Well, the Trump administration has made it official: the United States plans to revive the Monroe Doctrine–prioritizing American dominance in the Western Hemisphere. It’s laid out as the “Trump Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine” in the President’s National Security Strategy.

Over the weekend, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth said the approach would be informed by what he called “hard-nosed realism”... with strategic rationality and cost-benefit assessments guiding the approach.

Here’s what he said that would look like:

HEGSETH: The War Department will not be distracted by democracy building interventionism, undefined wars, regime change, climate change, woke moralizing and feckless nation building. We will instead put our nation's practical, concrete interests first. We will deter war. We will advance our interests. We will defend our people. Peace is our goal. And in service of that objective, we will always be ready to fight and win decisively if called upon.

So Hunter, the plan lays out a few pillars of this strategy. Walk us through how you read the plan. What can we expect?

BAKER: Well, with regard to the Trump corollary, we’re talking about, really, Latin America, and I think Trump is building on the earlier Roosevelt corollary—Teddy Roosevelt—to say that when it comes to Latin America, that the U.S. is saying it will exert a sort of a police power when it thinks it is necessary. So if you want to think about what we've been doing with regard to this sort of Venezuelan drug trade, then you start to understand these words like police power. You know, it's kind of an intervention that is more than criminal in nature, but which could involve military force. And so I think that what Trump is doing is he's building these alliances in Latin America. And so where he intervene militarily. So that's that's sort of in the Latin American side of things.

With regard to Europe, I see him continuing to say what he said earlier, which is, is that Europe is not going to be a free rider on the American military anymore. You know, this continued insistence that the Europeans pay more of their way, but also pointing out, and this is kind of aggressive, and it's going to set off a lot of people pointing out that Europe is in relative decline. I don't know if people paid attention that the state of Mississippi now has a higher standard of living than Germany. You know, the higher GDP per capita than Germany. That is basically unthinkable, and yet it has occurred. So Europe is in economic decline relative to the United States, and he's basically saying, you know, Europe needs to become more like the United States, be a better partner to the United States, stop being with us in NATO and sometimes against us as the EU.

So those are the sorts of things that we're hearing there. And he's also, I think, warning the Chinese not to go too far foreign trying to influence Latin America's path.

MAST: Critics of the plan say it’s dangerous, that there are threats from the other hemisphere that need attention…

Are those criticisms founded?

BAKER: I think that we live in a world of constraints. So if I say we should focus on Latin America, somebody else could say, you're ignoring Asia and that's dangerous. Well, it would always be better for me to be able to police the entire world. It would always be better for me to have a military that could defeat every other military and win a three -nation war and all kinds of things like that. But we don't necessarily have the ability to sustain that. So I can understand pushing the Europeans to do their part and basically saying, we're going to control our hemisphere and kind of giving warnings to the Chinese. I can understand that as sort of a realistic way of dealing with the problem of not being able to do everything.

MAST: You mentioned the drug boats and I’d like to come back to that.

So stay with me here: one thing we’ve not discussed with you is the question of the philosophy around those strikes. Certainly this is not the first time an American president has used the word “war” to describe the battle against drugs. Richard Nixon, more than 50 years ago.

NIXON: America's public enemy number one in the United States is drug abuse. This will be a worldwide offensive, dealing with the problems of sources of supply as well as Americans who may be stationed abroad, wherever they are in the world.

So, are we at war? Are these strikes justified in the first place? And if so, how?

BAKER: So you mentioned Nixon in on drugs, I think, I think that he accurately recognized that a country can be destroyed from within. And I don't want to sound hysterical, but it is disturbing. I mean, when I, when I walk through major American cities and I smell marijuana everywhere, to some extent, that's the scent of American decline that I'm smelling. And obviously, a lot of worse drugs than marijuana out there, and we're worried about those proliferating. We have not been very successful in the war against drugs. It seems to have become much worse. And so we may be asking ourselves, is the criminal response to the problem adequate? Or do we have to do more? So I think that what Trump is doing with these strikes is signaling that we're going to do more. But it is concerning, and it's concerning from a Christian perspective. I mean, we want to try to abide by just war theory, which is kind of Christian in nature, the idea that there's a just cause, there's a legitimate authority to declare that war, that we have a right intention in declaring that war, and that it was our last resort. And so we ask these kind of questions, and are we correctly discriminating between combatants and non-combatants, and are we using proportionate force? As we look at some of these strikes, like on these Venezuelan boats that we're told are narco -terrorists, we have those kinds of concerns.

EICHER: Hunter, the Supreme Court on Monday, heard a case involving presidential power to fire officials in independent agencies.

We’ll cover the legal issues in Legal Docket, but the political issue is interesting, President Trump fired a Federal Trade Commission official. He said she didn’t align with his Administration’s priorities. The official Rebecca Slaughter sued, and pointed to a precedent from 1935 that held that officials like her could be fired only for reasons of “inefficiency, neglect of duty, or malfeasance in office.”

The Trump administration argued that precedent improperly ties the president’s hands.

SAUER: It continues to tempt Congress to erect at the heart of our government a headless fourth branch insulated from political accountability and democratic control.

Hunter, talk about what happens if the president wins this one, because it sure looks like he might.

BAKER: The Constitution says that the executive authority resides in the president's hands. And so I look at these sort of congressional agencies and I see something that is in significant tension with the Constitution. Congress is supposed to say what is supposed to be done, but the executive is supposed to say how it's done and is supposed to do it. And so I think that the idea with these sort of independent, congressionally created agencies was that we had this tremendous faith in the power of neutral bureaucracy that is free from political taint. And I think that what we find is that politics is everywhere, including in these agencies, and that they are run differently depending on who is the president and who is making the appointments. So I would argue that these agencies are sort of usurping the proper sphere of authority of the president, and if the court finds that way, I think that's going to be correct. I think that it will actually make more sense to have these agencies be accountable to the president's executive authority. Now, as I say that, I just want to go back and say what I've said before, which is I think that the president wields too much policy authority of the type that belongs to Congress. We have turned the Constitution into a crazy quilt kind of a thing. But with regard to this particular issue, I think it's clear that this power resides with the president.

EICHER: Well, Hunter, I'm curious, you talk about constitutional structure. Does independent government anything find its authority in the Constitution? I mean, what the Constitution does it really talk about an independent authority in that sense?

BAKER: I mean, you have Congress who makes the law. You have a president who enforces the law. And then you have a president who has sort of this authority to conduct foreign policy. But I don't really see, when the Constitution is written, I don't think that you have this sort of strong idea of an independent or a neutral authority in the same way. Now, it's true. If we were talking to somebody like George Washington, he would say, well, I would rather that we didn't have political parties at all. So maybe in that sense, maybe we had some sort of neutral sort of thing. But no, I don't see the Constitution envisioning neutral agencies.

EICHER: Hunter Baker is provost at North Greenville University. Hunter, thanks so much. We’ll see you next time.

BAKER: Thank you.

NICK EICHER, HOST: Coming up next on The World and Everything in It: WORLD Tour with our reporter in Africa, Onize Oduah.

ONIZE ODUAH: We begin today with celebrations in Syria, as the Middle Eastern nation marks one year since the fall of former President Bashar Assad.

People crowded the streets of Damascus, waving flags and watching a military parade.

On December 8th last year, rebels led by the Islamist group Hayat Tahrir al-Sham seized control of Damascus after their offensive began in the city of Aleppo. Assad fled the country and remains in exile in Moscow.

The Islamist group’s leader Ahmad al-Sharaa now serves as Syria’s interim president.

Ghaith Tarabin attended the Damascus rally.

GHAITH TARABIN: [ARABIC] We hope that things improve in the future, and we hope that the government work harder on civil peace and give it high priority, and on domestic matters, God willing.

He says that he hopes the government works on civil peace and prioritizes domestic matters.

Syria is still grappling with sectarian tensions and the aftermath of 14 years of civil war.

Syria’s al-Sharaa reemphasized his commitment to reconciliation in the country.

AL-SHARA: [ARABIC] We reaffirm our commitment to the principle of transitional justice to ensure accountability for all those who violated the law and committed crimes against the Syrian people.

He says he will ensure accountability for all those who committed crimes against the Syrian people.

Next we head to Southeast Asia, where clashes have escalated between neighbors Thailand and Cambodia.

Fighting resumed after a Sunday night skirmish at their shared border, where one Thai soldier died. Both countries have accused each other of breaking an October ceasefire.

On Tuesday, leaders on both sides said the fighting will continue.

The violence has sent thousands of people on both sides of the border fleeing for safety.

FARMER: [THAI] The situation affects us a lot. We’re ordinary people trying to make a living. I have to tap rubber at night but now I can’t. I also have debts, and my children need to go to school. If I can’t go out to tap rubber, I have no income

This Thai farmer says the fighting has stopped her from working at night and kept her children from school.

U.S. President Donald Trump asked both sides to honor their commitment to end the tension.

Thailand and Cambodia have a decadeslong history of fighting over disputed territory. The conflict goes back to when Thailand opposed a map created in 1907 while Cambodia was still under French rule.

Over to the West African nation of Benin, where some normalcy has returned after a failed coup attempt on Sunday.

AUDIO: [TELEVISION ADDRESS]

In a televised address, a group of military personnel announced they had ousted President Patrice Talon. But only a few hours later, authorities announced the coup attempt had failed.

A government official confirmed soldiers from Nigeria and Ivory Coast helped to restore order..

The coup leader is still on the run but several others have been arrested.

President Talon thanked the troops who remained loyal to the country.

TALON: [FRENCH] This commitment and mobilisation allowed us to thwart these adventurers and save our country. This treachery will not go unpunished.

He says they allowed the country to thwart the coup, adding that the treachery won’t go unpunished.

SOUND: [PROTESTORS]

In Germany, some 3,000 people marched in Berlin to decry a controversial new military service bill. Many of the protestors were young people.

Last week, Germany’s lower house of parliament voted to mandate all 18-year-old men to fill out a questionnaire gauging their interest in military service. The survey will be voluntary for women.

Lawmakers hope the form and a monthly salary of over $3000 USD will entice more youths to join the military.

Students joined similar demonstrations in more than 90 cities across the country.

Tess Datzer joined the protests in Berlin.

TESS DATZER: [GERMAN] There is no investment in our pensions, not in our future, not in the climate. I don’t see any good reasons why our generation should have to go to war.

She says her generation can’t go to war for a country that does not invest in its future.

Germany is seeking to boost its troops to meet new NATO requirements and also bolster its defenses. Last month, France announced a 10-month voluntary military training for men and women, mostly 18 and 19-year-olds.

If Germany’s upper house also approves the plan, it is expected to begin in January.

Our final story today is also from Germany, where one family has broken their own record for the largest number of decorated Christmas trees in one place.

The record official counted 621 trees in Susanne and Thomas Jeromin’s house, finding them everywhere from the kitchen to the bathroom.

THOMAS JEROMIN: [GERMAN] Decorating is fun in itself, at least for me, even if it is a lot of work.

Thomas Jeromin says decorating is fun, but it’s a lot of work. They start in June, and people always call them crazy:

JEROMIN: [GERMAN] For me, it's just wonderful, totally beautiful, whether young or old, people come in here and leave with a smile on their face.

But he says it’s worth it to see the smiles on the faces of everyone who visits.

That’s this week’s World Tour. I’m Onize Oduah.

NICK EICHER, HOST: At the Lee Correctional Institution in South Carolina, some inmates were dreaming of a Contraband Christmas.

But a guard there made like Mr. Grinch when he spotted gifts about to be delivered from above — and not by sleigh, I must add. A delivery drone was attempting to drop a holiday bundle: raw steak, crab legs, a tin of Old Bay… as well as cigarettes and other contraband.

A full-on Christmas party that was not to be.

Corrections officials posted photos of the Grinchy intercept. They recovered the drone, too — but haven’t arrested anyone yet.

And a department spokeswoman had the line of the day about the inmates missing their surf-and-turf dinner: she guessed they’re probably a little… crabby.

Now, now. That was her joke. I’m just reporting the news.

It’s The World and Everything in It.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Today is Wednesday, December 10th.

Thank you for turning to WORLD Radio to help start your day.

Good morning. I’m Lindsay Mast.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher.

Coming next on The World and Everything in It: encountering the supernatural. It’s something author Lee Strobel has looked into, something that happened to him.

STROBEL: Here I was 12 years old, I had a vision, a dream unlike any that ever had. The angel told me something that day I did not know: That salvation is not something we earn. It’s a free gift of God.

But he says he felt embarrassed by the experience. That’s a feeling he believes most Americans—even Christians—feel about the supernatural.

STROBEL: We want neighbors to know, oh, we're just like you. Yes, I believe in Jesus. Yes, I go to church. But any weird stuff like miracles or demons or angels, or any of that weird, you know, and I think we impoverish ourselves theologically and spiritually, by suppressing the evidence that God is still active in this world.

Strobel is an investigative journalist with degrees from the University of Missouri and Yale Law School. He also spent time as the legal editor of the Chicago Tribune. He became a Christian more than 40 years ago after setting out to disprove Christianity, and he’s since written bestselling books like The Case for Christ and The Case for a Creator.

MAST: But most recently Strobel turned his attention to the supernatural, particularly the evidence that God is still active in the world. It’s the premise for his latest book Seeing the Supernatural, and a new movie called The Case for Miracles that comes out early next week.

I spoke with Strobel recently to find out more about where his research led him.

Here’s that conversation.

Lee, it’s been pretty well documented that younger people right now are more open to the idea of the supernatural than older people are, or than younger people of previous generations. I’d like to start there and ask: why do you think that is?

STROBEL: Well, it's a good question. I think maybe they feel like they've been lied to by so many people. They've been misled by so many people. The Internet has all kinds of stuff on there you can't trust AI, who knows what's AI and what isn't advertising and so forth trying to lure them. And I think they want something that's solid and anchor for their life, and something they can rely upon and build them a future on.

MAST: Well, you’ve written a lot about miracles. I want to know, what’s the most common misunderstanding people have about modern miracles?

STROBEL: Well, I think a lot of people will attribute things to being a miracle when it's really not, you know, oh, I got a parking place here. Oh, it's a miracle. Now, probably not. Sometimes miracles are just big coincidences. Sometimes it's fraud, somebody trying to fool you. Sometimes it's the placebo effect, where you think you're going to feel better and all of a sudden you feel better. Could be a misdiagnosis. Oh, I don't have cancer anymore. Yeah, but the original diagnosis was wrong, so. But having said that, there are cases, and this is the ones we deal with in the movie that are well documented, where we have solid medical documentation, where we've got multiple incredible eyewitnesses who have no motive to deceive, where there's no natural explanation, and where it takes place in the context of prayer, when you've got those four things, and I think we can have confidence that God has intervened supernaturally in a life.

MAST: Go a little deeper for me. What are you looking for as you evaluate—you’re an investigative journalist by trade—what are you looking for as you evaluate the validity of someone’s claim of having experienced a supernatural event? What—in other words—what do you see as a responsible way of doing that?

STROBEL: Yeah, I think let's delve into it. Let's look at what is the medical data? So, one case for instance that we investigated involved a woman named Barbara. What was her diagnosis? Well, we have documents from the Mayo Clinic showing she had multiple sclerosis. We have multiple eyewitnesses who talk about her being in hospice on the verge of dying, curled up like a pretzel, virtually blind. One lung collapsed, a tube in her throat so she could breathe. Hadn't walked in seven years, or muscles had atrophied. That's well documented. And then 450 people began praying for her, and she hears a voice from the corner of her room that says, “My child, get up and walk.” And she rips the tube out from her throat. She jumps out of bed, and she's instantaneously 100% healed of the effects of multiple sclerosis. Two doctors were so blown away by this, as one doctor said, this is medically impossible, and two of them ended up writing about it in books that they wrote. One doctor, after she was healed, said later, I saw her walking down the office or down the hallway toward my office, and I said, Oh, she must have died. This must be a ghost. This can't happen. This is medically impossible. So we look at those kind of things, medical documentation, solid, credible eyewitnesses and no natural explanation. Show me another case where someone is instantaneously healed of multiple sclerosis after people pray for them. I mean, it's pretty amazing.

MAST: I think people may want to know, who do you appeal to theologically to make sure as you research this and look into things that you don’t veer too far astray?

STROBEL: Yeah, I mean, I have people in my life who are theologians, who review this kind of thing, like, for instance, for my book, The Case for miracles, I sat down for hours and hours and hours with Dr. Craig Keener, who is a theologian and historian at Asbury Seminary and has written multiple volumes about miracles, you're probably the world's leading expert on miracles, so I tap into people like that who have the theological expertise to be able to validate these cases that have. No other natural explanation other than you know what? Maybe God did do something supernatural here.

MAST: What about downsides or dangers as people explore the evidence for the supernatural?

STROBEL: Yeah, let's not be gullible. It bothers me when Christians jump too quickly to a conclusion that a miracle has happened. Sure, maybe it's within, of course, the providence of God. Maybe he allowed something to occur. But a miracle is defined as Jesus, as God supernaturally intervening in his creation. Richard Pertil, the great philosopher, described it as a miracle, as an event brought about by the power of God, that's a temporary exception to the ordinary course of nature for the purpose of showing that God has acted in history. So let's look at those cases that there's an interruption of the ordinary course of nature. That's a pretty high standard to try to determine if a miracle has taken place.

MAST: I want to know, beyond that, which case in Seeing the Supernatural keeps coming to your mind even now?

STROBEL: Well, one of my favorites is a woman who is blind with an incurable condition, juvenile macular degeneration for a dozen years, she went to a school for the blind. She learned how to read braille, and she married a pastor, and one night, they're getting ready to go to bed, and he puts his hand on her shoulder, and he begins to cry and begins to pray and says, Lord, I know you can heal my wife. I know you can do it, and I pray you do it tonight. And with that, she opened her eyes and saw her husband for the first time. And her vision remained the rest of her life. She lived another 50 plus years, and now four medical researchers documented that. Case and publish it in a peer reviewed medical journal. When I talk about these cases, I footnote 'em and I footnote the actual articles that have been published in these medical journals, if anybody wants further investigative evidence for what took place?

MAST: Lee Strobel is the author of Seeing the Supernatural and appears in the new movie The Case for Miracles, which is based on his book by the same name. Lee, thank you so much for being with us.

STROBEL: My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

NICK EICHER, HOST: Good morning! This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Nick Eicher.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: And I’m Lindsay Mast. Up next, WORLD commentator Janie B .Cheaney on the lessons from silent desperation.

JANIE CHEANEY: Take a survey of favorite traditional Christmas carols, and “Silent Night” will come out near the top. It’s easy to see why: it’s the wonder and candlelit stillness of Christmas Eve, when the waiting is almost over and we pause at the end of a hectic season to just be quiet. It’s the silence of heavenly peace.

But silence isn’t always heavenly. Sometimes it echoes with desperate pleas. A few case studies:

Paula is sunk in depression, for the first time ever. She is not a depressive personality, but a crusader, a culture warrior. Still, the bad news is piling up: financial, political, personal. She doesn’t know how to help herself or those closest to her, and so far the Lord is silent.

Martha has been struggling with cancer for six years. She’s experienced triumphs and upswings, faith strides and faith affirmations. But lately the news is all bad, and the pain is harder to manage. Her job, these days, is being sick. She’s still a wife, mother, and Christian witness, but all those roles, like her body, are fighting for space with the cancer. Should she give up, or fight on, or does she have a choice? Silence.

Olivia fell in love and got more than she bargained for: a good man, cute children, and a wild card of an ex-wife, who is rarely responsive to reason. Depending on how she feels moment to moment, she can sow long-lasting weeds of discord into a young family trying to adjust to their new configurations. Is there a solution? Silence.

Much of secular counseling focuses on isolating the problem. Success is measured by how far away you can keep it. Even Christian counseling can be all about victory; about overcoming. But where problems are outside our control—the illness or the antagonist or the stubborn obstacles that won’t give way, when you beg the Lord and pound on his door and nothing changes . . .

At least you’re in good company. Job famously railed against God’s silence in the face of what seemed like rank injustice. David and other psalmists begged the Lord to rebuke their enemies, “Lest, if you be silent, I go down to the pit” (Psalm 28:1).

But it may take awhile for God to silence your enemies. In Lamentations chapter 3, Jeremiah, who would know from experience, advises that “It’s good to wait quietly for the salvation of the Lord.” While waiting, remember the time when God himself was the victim of rank injustice. In the wild clamor of that night, even while his good friend Peter was loudly denying he even knew him, Jesus never opened his mouth. Rather, as Peter would later write, he “continued entrusting himself to the one who judges justly.”

That silent night in Bethlehem probably rang with the bleats of animals, the clatter of wagon wheels, and watchmen calling the hours. But at its heart was God’s justice and mercy, quietly nursing. In your own lonely silence, listen for him.

I’m Janie B. Cheaney.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Tomorrow: lawmakers continue to debate what to do about government subsidies for healthcare. And, how Charles Dickens reshaped Christmas celebrations. That and more tomorrow.

I’m Lindsay Mast.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher.

The World and Everything in It comes to you from WORLD Radio. WORLD’s mission is Biblically objective journalism that informs, educates, and inspires.

The Bible says: “And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.” —Hebrews 9:27, 28

Go now in grace and peace.

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