The World and Everything in It: August 31, 2022
The implications of President Biden’s plan for student loan forgiveness; some Americans are helping to sponsor Ukrainian refugees; and one man’s story of helping people flee Afghanistan. Plus: commentary from Janie B. Cheaney, and the Wednesday morning news.
MARY REICHARD, HOST: Good morning!
President Biden plans to wipe out student loan debt. What are the implications of this?
NICK EICHER, HOST: That’s ahead on Washington Wednesday.
Also—a report on an emergency program for Ukrainians trying to enter the United States.
Plus we’ll meet someone who helped Afghan nationals flee their country ahead of the US withdrawal one year ago.
And a mindset that welcomes new life.
REICHARD: It’s Wednesday, August 31st. This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Mary Reichard.
EICHER: And I’m Nick Eicher. Good morning!
REICHARD: Up next, Kristen Flavin with today’s news.
KRISTEN FLAVIN, NEWS ANCHOR: Gorbachev obit » REAGAN: Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!
Mikhail Gorbachev has died at age 91. That, according to Russian state media.
Gorbachev ruled in the final years of the Soviet Union. His policy of “glasnost”—or openness—ushered in economic and democratic reforms. The changes led to the 1989 fall of the Berlin Wall, a symbol of communist isolation. Gorbachev won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1990—just one year before he stepped down—and the Soviet Union collapsed.
Several years ago, a BBC reporter asked Gorbachev about current tensions between Russia and the West.
He said as long as both sides have nuclear weapons, quote, “the danger is colossal.”
Ukraine update » Now, Ukraine is fighting to maintain the independence it gained in 1991. And it’s going on the offensive against Russian invaders.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy predicts his country will take back all of the territory Russia has seized.
Zelenskyy here, speaking through a translator:
ZELENSKYY: this will happen this is ours and just as our society understands it I want the occupiers to understand it too there will be no place for them on Ukrainian land.
Yesterday, Ukrainian forces claimed to have destroyed bridges and ammunition depots in Kherson, a strategic city on the Black Sea.
Jackson drinking water » Jackson, Mississippi, has too much water and not enough.
Heavy rain and floods caused problems at a water treatment plant. That led to low water pressure throughout the city. Bernard Smith is a Jackson resident. He says it could be worse.
SMITH: When I look at Katrina what they had to go. I mean our situation is it is nothing like what they experienced.
Gov. Tate Reeves said the state will provide water for drinking and household use and send contractors to restore the plant.
TATE: We need to provide it for up to 180,000 people for an unknown period of time. We have the best possible expert leadership and manpower, but it will still not be easy.
Some schools in the city are switching to virtual learning. It’s unknown how long the water outage will last.
Pakistan floods » Pakistan, meanwhile, is experiencing its worst monsoon season in years. According to the country’s climate minister, a third of the country is underwater.
AUDIO: [Pakistan camp]
More than 1,000 people have died in flooding since mid-June. Fast-rising rivers have forced millions to move to makeshift camps across the country.
UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres asked for $160 million to support the country.
GUTTERES: Pakistan is awash in suffering. The Pakistani people are facing a monsoon on steroids.
The water has started to recede, but officials say there is more rain coming.
Iraq protests » Shiite Cleric Muqtada al-Sadr ordered his followers to stop shooting and leave Iraq’s government buildings.
His followers obeyed, and gunfire ceased within 60 minutes. But not before at least 30 people were killed in the violence.
Sadr said Monday he’s resigning from politics, but he maintains a strong influence over his followers.
Economy » Stocks are still down on Wall Street. That, after the Fed said last week it will continue its severe interest rate hikes.
Press Secretary Karine Jean Pierre says the White House is on the Fed’s side.
JEAN PIERRE: We believe they have the strongest tools to deal to deal with that but we know that Americans are feeling the pain of higher cost higher prices.
A strong jobs report this morning was also, surprisingly, bad news: It means the Fed will likely double-down on its strategy for slowing the economy in order to fight inflation.
I’m Kristen Flavin. Straight ahead: the implications of wiping out student loan debt.
Plus, how one man helped people flee Afghanistan.
This is The World and Everything in It.
MARY REICHARD, HOST: It’s Wednesday, August the 31st, 2022.
You’re listening to The World and Everything in It and we’re so glad you are! Good morning, I’m Mary Reichard.
NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher. Time now for Washington Wednesday.
Today: wiping out federal student loans.
BIDEN: Using the authority Congress granted the Department of Education, we will forgive $10,000 in outstanding federal student loans. In addition, students who come from low income families, which allowed them to qualify to receive a Pell Grant will have their debt reduced to $20,000.
President Biden’s plan as he says to “forgive” student loans will transfer the burden of paying back those loans from borrower to taxpayer.
The debt of millions of individuals will be reduced or completely wiped out. It’s an unprecedented transfer of wealth that could top $1 trillion when all is said and done.
Joining us to talk about it is Erik Hoekstra. He is president of Dordt University. That’s a private evangelical Christian university in Sioux Center, Iowa.
REICHARD: President Hoekstra, good morning!
ERIK HOEKSTRA, GUEST: Good morning.
REICHARD: I understand you are in Washington, DC today?
HOEKSTRA: I am on the board of the CCCU and I was in town for a meeting. And so you're catching me here.
REICHARD: The CCCU is Council for Christian Colleges and Universities. President Hoeskstra, what is your response to the federal government wiping out this debt for the students who borrowed the money?
HOEKSTRA: Well, I would say my first response is it’s good to finally have a proposal on the table. We've been hearing about this for so many months, long before even the last presidential election, various people saying we should do this and we should do that. And just living in that uncertainty time, I know for Dordt alumni who are borrowers or alumni who are in the middle of paying back their student loans to the coronavirus, all that uncertainty just wasn't good for anyone, but I'm very pessimistic about the actual situation that we are in in terms of student loans across the United States. And also this particular proposal. I don't think– I've written a piece on it encouraging our alumni to avail themselves of it. I don't think there's anything scripturally or biblically that would say if this is available to you, you shouldn't on principle, not avail yourself of it. But I really don't think it's helpful long term.
REICHARD: Well, what you’re talking about there is moral hazard, I think. That’s the larger question and that is always “what is the lesson learned here?” The risk of moral hazard exists in that going forward people will naturally assume another round of “forgiveness” will arrive and let them off the hook for obligations they agreed to meet. How do you see this and how will it affect colleges like yours in the future?
HOEKSTRA: I don't imagine that this will automatically sort of put a spending spree on colleges and universities, but certainly that hazard is there if there is easy money to be had, yeah, we tend to be more easy with it. But I don't think that's going to be automatic. I do think that the higher education landscape is called highly competitive right now. There are more opportunities for students to get degrees than there are, you know, so it is a buyers market. So I don't think that it'll automatically go up and up and up. But that certainly is part of the moral hazard.
REICHARD: I’ve read that one of the big reasons for college costs going up is just massive administrative costs. Now this may not be the case with Dordt University. I doubt that it is. But I think of legions of for example equity and diversity personnel hired at quite high salaries. In some schools there’re fewer professors than managers. Speak to that if you would?
HOEKSTRA: To run a college or university today does require compliance with, I would say, an overburdensome state and federal government, which is driving up costs, right? We’re often the villain in the “colleges just make it go up.” Well, there are multiple villains, but parents want to be involved in the lives of their students, so they expect a lot of communication. I've got staffers probably three times the amount of staff today that we had 20 years ago, just in terms of communicating with alumni and parents. That's also part of our cost going up. So we shouldn't unduly vilify the federal government, although, I would say the federal government is a tremendous amount of regulatory expenses come into our staff at institutions like Dordt.
REICHARD: Can you give concrete examples of that? What I hear you saying is that it’s not all the government’s fault but there is some government culpability in creating the high cost of college education in the first place.
HOEKSTRA: Yeah, well, let's just talk about student loans. I mean, there are multiple audits and paperwork. I mean, I get a couple of emails a year that remind my staff to be able to submit this for we have a Veterans Program, right, where we have certain grants and loans for veterans or Pell grants or student loans, tremendous amount of complying to participate in the process. But overall, we've been very happy to participate since our founding in 1955 with the federal government on both Pell grants as well as student loans. And up and to this point, I think it has been something without a tremendous amount of moral hazard because our students have taken it seriously. Our loan default rate is less than 2% and that's wildly different than what you will see across higher education generally. I would be willing to take an equity position. If our students don't perform on their student loans to a certain level, I'd be willing to pay that back to the federal coffers because I believe in what we're doing at a Dordt and institutions like Dordt. I'd be willing to stand with a state university or community college or anybody else and see if they'd be willing to take that pledge as well.
REICHARD: So, President Hoekstra, when did the problem begin to escalate?
HOEKSTRA: Well, the student loan program goes back to 1958. And I think was well started with good intentions, and for a long time was used in a good partnership between students’ institutions and the federal government. When you look at the growth of the student loan balances, up until 2005 it grew to a certain level and at a certain sort of trajectory. In 2005, the federal government got more involved and went to what's called direct student lending. And if you look at the pitch of the line at that point, that's when we saw the tremendous, tremendous growth. I'm going to just quote you general terms, and if I'm a little wrong, I think it was about $400 billion, if I'm not mistaken, sitting at about 2005. Since then, it's grown to $1.7 trillion. So from 1958 to 2005, we grew from a zero balance to $400 billion, then, by about 2012, I think it had grown to around a trillion and since 2012 to today, now it's $1.7 trillion. So, the I would say the federal government stepped on the gas pedal in 2005 by going to direct student lending and now is trying to, I would say, fix a problem that in my opinion, they inordinately created by virtue of direct student lending rather than the old program.
REICHARD: Final question President Hoekstra: I’ve seen trade school graduates looking at all of this and saying, how is this fair? I made a choice that I could pay for myself and yet here I’m being asked to pay the debts of people earning way more income than I am in many cases. Comment?
HOEKSTRA: Trade schools get student loans or Pell grants as well. And Dordt has always had two year degrees and we just started some two year degrees in the trades—manufacturing and in farm operations management in the last couple of years because we do believe not everyone needs a four year degree to thrive in the U.S. economy, or quite frankly, from a Christian worldview, be an effective Kingdom citizen. But student loans are all over the map. I think those who have never gone to college, or in our case, we have a tremendous number of Dordt graduates whose families have scraped and saved or have given private loans to their children to go to college and they're not going to be able to avail themselves of it. I do think that this message will change some of that, from that moral hazard standpoint, where people might think twice about scraping and saving so much. And I do think that that's something that probably hasn't adequately been wrestled with across from the White House over to Congress.
REICHARD: Eric Hoekstra is president of Dordt University. President Hoekstra, thank you so much for talking with us today.
HOEKSTRA: Thanks for your work on this as well. Have a great day.
MARY REICHARD, HOST: Coming up next on The World and Everything in It: Ukrainian refugees.
In March, President Biden pledged to welcome 100,000 Ukrainian refugees to the United States. So far, the number who’ve arrived is one and a half times that number.
NICK EICHER, HOST: The administration put in place a program it says gets around the typical delays refugees face. It’s called Uniting for Ukraine. It allows Ukrainians stay in the United States for two years so long as an American sponsor can support them financially.
WORLD’s Addie Offereins spoke with sponsors and refugees about how the program is working.
LIEL: In the region where they lived it was, you know, there was bombing and everywhere where they lived. Her parents are still there three months with no water and gas.
ADDIE OFFEREINS, REPORTER: Liel Cheri translates for her cousin, Tanya Cherepanova.
LIEL: Can you imagine yourself living in a house with no water or gas for three months?
They sit at Liel’s large dining room table in a spacious two-story home in Round Rock, Texas—a suburb of Austin.
Shortly after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Tanya and her 10-year-old twin daughters fled for neighboring Poland.
They traveled with two suitcases and left everything else behind. In Poland, they joined about 1.3 million other Ukrainian refugees. In Round Rock, Liel wanted to find a way to get them to Texas.
LIEL: We heard people can cross the border through Mexico like Tijuana, whatever. So we were trying to bring them to Tijuana and to get them there.
They bought tickets to Tijuana. Liel bought a ticket to meet them in San Diego.
LIEL: And then, literally, two days before their flight, they announced that they're closing the border. Because of Uniting for Ukraine.
AUDIO: [CBS NEWS REPORT]
Ukrainians could no longer cross the U.S.-Mexico border without visas. Instead, Liel applied to sponsor Tanya and her family.
LIEL: They had just about the program, nobody knew how it's gonna work, what it's gonna be. So I applied for sponsorship
While the U.S. government processed sponsorship applications, Tanya and her daughters waited in a Mexico City camp with 600 others.
LIEL: They put huge tents together here's like tents for families for women so it could be up to I don't know 50 People in the same tent so you had like little mattresses next to one another. Showers were outside and the bathrooms were outside.
Volunteers served food and Church groups led services.
PRAYER AT THE CAMP: ... We just say we want our worship to be for you God...
LIEL: There were a lot of religious people, you know, so they were praying for, praying.
A few weeks later, Tanya and her family arrived in Austin on May 16th. In total, their journey from Ukraine to Texas took almost two months.
Tanya wants to work and support her family, but she doesn’t speak English and is still waiting on work authorization.
LIEL: Like, we need to pay for everything, you know. And they are not allowed to work. They are waiting for work authorization. So, I mean, so they, they allow them to get into the country and what? So she wants to work, you know, to support her family. She can't.
This is the reality for many Ukrainians who come through the Uniting for Ukraine program.
SOERENS: One of the challenges is because it was a fairly quickly thrown together program that isn't going through the authority of the Refugee Act, which is already law
Matthew Soerens is the U.S. director of church mobilization and advocacy for World Relief.
SOERENS: Had these individuals come as refugees, they would qualify clearly, for some specific services, they'd also qualify for work authorization, the day they arrived.
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services says it is expediting those work authorizations. But it can still take several months.
And what happens when Ukrainians’ two years in the U.S. are up?
SOERENS: We're hopeful they'll be able to go back to Ukraine and the war will be over, it'll be safe, then. But it's very possible, that won't be the case. Or, there will be people who really want to stay here, especially those who are now with extended family in the United States. And it's not clear that there's a legal process for them to do so.
Like Afghans who fled to the United States when the Taliban took over, Ukrainians with this temporary status have few options.
SOERENS: What we would encourage Congress and the administration to do is to really invest in fixing the refugee resettlement process, so that the next time there's a crisis like this, people can just be brought in formally as refugees and not have to go through this process that has a lot of limitations.
Soerens says it's important that churches and other groups come alongside sponsors and refugees. It could be as simple as helping to drive a refugee to a government appointment.
SOERENS: I think stepping up to sponsor is great, but also reaching out to the resettlement agency in your community World Relief or others and saying, Hey, are there you know, people who are kind of falling through some cracks, who we could help support? Whose sponsors may not have been able to do so
Sponsoring a family is a big job, and Liel has appreciated support.
LIEL: So it will be nice if they're going to have any resources, where to go, how to apply or people around helping, like our neighborhood is amazing whenever they post, like, I have like family from Ukraine, so people bought some clothing.
Tanya’s ten-year-old girls wear matching glasses. Their favorite thing about America so far? Chocolate milk. Like Tanya, they don’t speak any English. So they were a little nervous about starting school.
LIEL: It's a different world you know, we're trying to introduce them to kids, but when they don't speak English at all, that's mean. So hopefully now when they get to start school, things are gonna get a little easier. They were gonna get more comfortable.
Reporting for WORLD, I’m Addie Offereins in Round Rock, Texas.
NICK EICHER, HOST: There’s nothing like a pair of shoes that fit just right. And that’s not just for humans, it’s for penguins too.
Lucas is a penguin who lives at the San Diego Zoo. He was born with a malady known as bumblefoot, which means kind of what it sounds like it means, he’s unable to walk normally.
Zookeeper Debbie Denton explained to television station CBS8:
DENTON: You would see him listing to the right a bit. You would see him limping on his left foot.
That kind of difference in the animal world meant he wasn’t accepted by the other penguins. They shunned him.
The zookeepers decided to do something about it. SO they took impressions of his footprint and sent them to a company that makes animal prosthetics.
That’s when Lucas got his new shoes. They’ve changed his life. He’s walking around like he owns the place.
DENTON: It warms my heart just to know that we've been able to do something to make him more comfortable and to make him fit into the colony a little bit better.
Now that Lucas is one of the huddle, he’s even got a girlfriend.
It’s The World and Everything in It.
MARY REICHARD, HOST: Today is Wednesday, August 31st. Thank you for turning to WORLD Radio to help start your day.
Good morning. I’m Mary Reichard.
NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher. Coming next on The World and Everything in It: evacuating Afghanistan.
Yesterday we reviewed some of the events leading up to the US withdrawal from Afghanistan a year ago. In the wake of that departure, thousands of Afghans flooded the airport in Kabul, desperate to flee the country before the Taliban solidified control.
REICHARD: But getting so many people out became a logistical nightmare. And as official channels closed, private citizens stepped up to help in any way they could. WORLD’s Whitney Williams talked with one man who got involved.
WHITNEY WILLIAMS, REPORTER: This time last year, Afghanistan monopolized the headlines.
AUDIO: Afghanistan’s president Ashraf Ghani has gone. He’s left the country.
Former Marine Corps officer Jake Cusack was monitoring the situation from his London office. That’s when he started receiving desperate phone calls from friends and friends of friends in Afghanistan, who knew he had connections with the U.S. military. They needed help. Could he help?
CUSACK: From sort of my mental health perspective, I sort of took the position that I'm gonna, I'm just gonna think of as no one's going to make it out, and so that everyone who gets out feels like a victory rather than be depressed about, you know, the 10s of 1000s, who are not making it out.
Cusack says his two tours in Iraq prepared him for intense situations, so he wasn’t afraid to step into the fray … he just felt surprised, really. Surprised to be needed. He was, after all, a civilian at the time.
CUSAK: I think, in a more ideal world. You know, there would have been an orderly, well planned evacuation for the friends and allies that have fought with us for two decades.
Instead, Cusack says, it was complete chaos.
AUDIO: This is what desperation looks like: Afghans clambering over each other to get a flight to anywhere.
Working remotely from London and then, later on, from Dubai, Cusack acted as an intermediary, of sorts, connecting endangered Afghans desperate to flee Taliban rule, with people he knew on the inside of the Kabul airport, U.S. military and State Department officials.
AUDIO: This is an emergency now: Tens of thousands trying to get through at the front … they’re being crushed.
AUDIO: [Chaos at the airport]
For two weeks, Cusack got little sleep. He spent his days and nights scouring WhatsApp and other signal groups, looking for reliable information that he could pass along. Staying glued to his phone was of utmost importance.
CUSAK: Because like 10 seconds, like a minute, could like mean, the difference between getting the person that like the word and time, like being able to coordinate the link up between someone that you know, on the inside and someone who's trying to come in from the outside?
AUDIO: [Afghan woman crying to American soldiers at fence]
Cusack remembers one situation in particular. A translator, her husband, and their child, whom he helped escape just in time …
CUSAK: I've been up for like 24 hours. And I was like, Okay, I have to I have to get like a little bit of sleep here. And so I recorded a couple of different voice notes …
AUDIO: If you can get up to the military, and this is Captain Jake Cusack speaking, um ask for Captain Rodriguez, and explain that you are on a flight organized by (beep) flight number (beep) … you’re manifested for that flight so you need access to the base to be processed for that flight, and they can call me or any other Marines on this chain if you have any questions. Thanks. Bye.
Cusack hit “send” and went to sleep for about 90 minutes. When he woke up:
CUSACK: I had a voice note back from her. That said, Sir, like, we made it, we're inside. And they got out. And then the next day was the Abbey Gate explosion.
AUDIO: Thirteen U.S. service members, mostly Marines, killed, 170 Afghans …
A lone suicide bomber affiliated with the Islamic State. Twenty pounds of explosives packed with ball bearings detonated in the middle of the Kabul airport’s last open entrance. The gates essentially shut after that.
At times, the what-ifs plague Cusack:
CUSAK: If I told the person to go this way, instead of that way, or leave tonight, instead of tomorrow, you know, maybe they'd be home now, or in that home, but they would be in a safe place. And they're not.
But Cusack knows it’s not healthy to stay in that space for long … the work continues:
CUSACK: I think there's a dangerous tendency or trend right now, in the US to be a bit isolationist. And just to say, we've got plenty of problems here. We can't worry about you know, people over there and not realizing that. Our fates are intertwined.
The 40-year-old Grand Rapids native admits he hasn’t been great with long-term follow-up, but keeps a running list on his phone of ways people can help:
CUSACK: There's a website called welcome.us, which is also for helping Ukrainian refugees. Lutheran immigration relief service is doing great work, World Relief is doing great work. Arizona state actually ended up housing and providing scholarships for a number of the women that I worked with in evacuating, and they have a website where you can donate to support those scholarships.
As for Cusack, he’s returned to his day job: Investing in fragile countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, creating jobs and stability, hope.
AUDIO: [Iraq startup/incubator]
CUSACK: I went to Baghdad, you know, where I hadn't been since I was in the military. And I went to this sort of like a startup incubator and had all these, you know, really vibrant Iraqi youth working on different ideas, you know, felt just really warm and was so vastly different than my experience in Baghdad in 2007, and 2008. That it really did give me, you know, a bit of hope that, you know, things are not lost forever. And even there where I did not have, you know, a positive outlook, long ago, you know, now you do see this hope.
Reporting for WORLD, I’m Whitney Williams.
NICK EICHER, HOST: Today is Wednesday, August 31st. Good morning! This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Nick Eicher.
MARY REICHARD, HOST: And I’m Mary Reichard. God’s perspective makes all the difference when it comes to unplanned pregnancy. Here’s WORLD commentator Janie B. Cheaney.
JANIE B. CHEANEY, COMMENTATOR: Included in the fallout after the reversal of Roe v. Wade were the furious reactions vomited up by social media. One widely-shared meme consisted of a quote from Jen Yoon, a Canadian writer and actress. She wrote that if men were the ones who faced an unplanned pregnancy, so that they, quote, “risked death, physical disability, social shaming, a life-altering interruption of their education or career, and the sudden life-long responsibility for another being, I think they’d expect a choice in the matter.”
This analogy echoes a prominent theme in the pro-abortion litany, sometimes stated as, “If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.” It’s a shallow argument with some obvious weaknesses, namely that men favor abortion in at least equal numbers to women, and that men beat the rap for child support only if there is no child.
But below that sexist jab is a more substantial argument with far more emotional punch. Seen from one perspective, it’s not false: any pregnancy carries a certain amount of risk and any child interrupts the course of a life. Framing a natural process in such threatening terms resonates with women who feel threatened by it.
Fortunately for everyone alive, there’s another perspective. It’s something like this: Every intimate encounter between a man and a woman presents the possibility of life to take hold and flourish. The possibility of a future. Before you are even aware of it, tiny fingers could be forming, which might soon mutely grasp your own. Before long, those hands could be reaching out for a hug, helping you roll cookie dough or hang ornaments on a Christmas tree, gripping a steering wheel
for the first time, firmly shaking the hands of well-wishers at college graduation.
Someday, a strong hand could be holding your frail one as your eyes close on this life. To most humans throughout history, those embryonic possibilities didn’t just
represent the future—they were the future. But I wonder if, as a society, we even believe in the future anymore. I mean the future for its own sake, not merely as an empty canvas on which to paint our individual plans. Furthering education and advancing careers are worthy goals, but goals are not the future; life is. You’ve heard the saying, “Life is what happens when you’re making other plans”?
That’s it. Life happens—except when it doesn’t. Together we make the future—unless we refuse to. For an overly distracted and self-absorbed society, rooted in an atmosphere of endless choices and distractions, disdaining the womb may be the ultimate refusal.
Maybe we’ll come to our senses and believe in the future again, especially if we can’t sustain the present. Or if not, the Lord who has been our dwelling place through all generations has not changed residence, and he believes.
I’m Janie B. Cheaney.
NICK EICHER, HOST: Tomorrow: an update on NASA’s Artemis launch.
And we’ll meet the head of Mission Eurasia and hear his story of growing up in Ukraine, and his work now in the war zone.
That and more tomorrow.
I’m Nick Eicher.
MARY REICHARD, HOST: And I’m Mary Reichard.
The World and Everything in It comes to you from WORLD Radio.
WORLD’s mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates, and inspires.
The Bible says: We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. (Ephesians 6:12 ESV)
Go now in grace and peace.
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