The World and Everything in It: April 9, 2025

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Good morning!

Today on Washington Wednesday: talk of a third presidential term for Trump, despite a prohibition by constitutional amendment.

AUDIO: “There could be ways around that. The 22nd Amendment is poorly drafted. / I don’t think there’s just a simple workaround in the 22nd Amendment.”

NICK EICHER, HOST: We’ll have the debate on that and on tariffs.

And later, the surprising lengths people go to raise their own chickens.

LANCASTER: It's a life lesson for them to nurture, take care of the chickens, and then there's life and death and things like that.

And a Supreme Court case on first freedoms.

MAST: It’s Wednesday, April 9th. This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Lindsay Mast.

EICHER: And I’m Nick Eicher. Good morning!

MAST: Up next, Kent Covington with today’s news.

KENT COVINGTON, NEWS ANCHOR: Reciprocal tariffs take effect » U.S. reciprocal trade tariffs are now officially in place … effective 12:01 this morning. President Trump says the amounts of those tariffs are unique to each country, based on the duties they apply to U.S. goods.

Agriculture Sec. Brooke Rollins says this had to be done.

ROLLINS:  At the end of the day, in the long term, free trade I think is perhaps the goal, but right now we are so unfairly treated and have been for years.

Democrats, though, say the tariffs will fuel inflation. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries:

JEFFRIES:  President Donald Trump promised that costs will go down on day one. He lied to the American people.

The president says his trade policies will ultimately bring costs down and wages up.

And the White House says it’s open for business … telling trading partners around the world … let’s make a deal.

Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt says more than 70 countries have already reached out.

Talks are underway with South Korea and Japan among others.

LEAVITT:  I have maintained this position. The entire administration has always said that President Trump is willing to pick up the phone and talk.

China trade war » That is, unless the caller ID reads ‘Beijing.’

The president says there’s nothing to talk about until or unless China drops a new 34% tariff on US goods. The Chinese government introduced that import tax after Trump’s tariffs announcement last week.

President Trump, in turn, announced another 50% tariff on China … bring the total tariff on Chinese goods to 104%.

The world’s two biggest economies now locked in an all-out trade war.

John Lee is chief executive of Hong Kong, which is now controlled by China’s communist government:

LEE:  The U.S. no longer adheres to free trade, and ruthless is ruthless behavior damages global and multilateral trade.

But the White House says China has been the most ruthless of them all … cheating, stealing, and gaming the trade system in every way imaginable.

White House advisor Steve Miller:

MILLER:  This is about the president of the United States defending the core national security interests of the United States.

China says it will fight a trade war to the end.

SCOTUS blocks order to reinstate fed workers » The Supreme Court has temporarily blocked a lower court order … that would have forced the Trump administration to reinstate thousands of federal workers. WORLD’s Benjamin Eicher has more.

BENJAMIN EICHER: Those 16,000 employees were let go as part of an effort to downsize the federal government … and federal spending.

A federal judge in California said the firings may have violated federal law, and ordered the administration to reinstate those workers while the case plays out.

But in a 7-to-2 ruling … the Supreme Court disagreed—for now.

Justices Sonia Sotomayor and Ketanji Brown Jackson dissented.

The justices did not rule on whether the firings were legal. They instead focused on whether the groups suing had the right to bring the case.

Many of the fired workers will stay on paid administrative leave, pending the resolution of a separate lawsuit.

For WORLD, I’m Benjamin Eicher.

SOUND: [White House ceremony]

Trump energy executive order » At the White House … President Trump welcomed a group of coal miners and other industry workers in the East Room … as he prepared to sign four new executive orders.

TRUMP: Thank you very much. This is a very important day because we’re bringing back an industry that was abandoned.

Under the orders, Trump will use his emergency authority to allow some older coal-fired power plants set for retirement to keep producing electricity.

The orders also direct all relevant agencies to identify coal resources on federal lands and lift barriers to mining and leasing on those lands.

Some environmental groups are blasting the move, accusing the president of championing an old, dirty, and unreliable energy source.

Weather, flooding » In Kentucky … after days of driving rain pushed rivers to near-record levels, life won’t return to normal quickly … even for many not directly impacted by the floods.

Louisville Mayor Craig Greenberg said the city had to cancel an annual airshow and fireworks display.

GREENBERG:  On Saturday when Thunder over Louisville was originally planned to be, the Ohio River is still expected to be at around a 30 foot level, which is 18 feet higher than normal. 

And with many evacuated residents anxious to get back to their homes … Gov. Andy Beshear is urging patience … and warning residents not to drive through water.

Inundated rivers are the latest threat from the storms that have killed at least 23 people.

Iran nuclear talks » Iran’s foreign minister is confirming that the U.S. and Iranian officials will hold nuclear talks this weekend. But he is refuting part of President Trump’s announcement this week. WORLD’s Christina Grube reports:

CHRISTINA GRUBE: President Trump on Monday said a U.S. delegation will set down with negotiators from Iran on Saturday in Amman, Jordan.

And Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi says that is true. But Trump also said the two sides would engage in direct talks.

And Araghchi insists that will not happen … as long as Washington continues to exert its policy of maximum pressure against Iran.

He says this weekend’s talks will be indirect. That likely means Jordaese mediators will shuttle between the two parties.

For WORLD, I’m Christina Grube.

Iran-Israel » President Trump has given Tehran two months to negotiate a new deal … to avoid possible military action by the U.S. to prevent a nuclear-armed Iran.

And the U.S. is sending a not-so-subtle signal to Iran that it means business … sending aircraft carriers to the region … and deploying at least six B-2 bombers have been deployed within range of Iran.

Those are the bombers that carry the so-called ‘bunker buster’ bombs … designed to penetrate deep below the earth.

I'm Kent Covington.

Straight ahead: tariffs and third terms on today’s Washington Wednesday. Plus, the demand for live chicks has skyrocketed after this winter’s spike in egg prices.

This is The World and Everything in It.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: It’s Wednesday the 9th of April.

Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Lindsay Mast.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher.

Time now for Washington Wednesday. In a moment, we’ll tell you about a hearing on the new tariff plan and the trade war. But first, could Trump 2.0 lead to Trump 3.0?

MAST: The 22nd Amendment to the Constitution says “No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice.” But since the president has openly mused about a third term some in the Republican Party are now considering ways to make it possible.

WORLD’s Josh Schumacher has the story.

JOSH SCHUMACHER: Congressman Andy Ogles of Tennessee proposed an amendment to the U-S Constitution back in January. He spoke about the amendment and Donald Trump’s presidency with ForbesTV.

OGLES: What this would allow, if it were to be amended, then the American people would get to decide if he deserved a third term.

Many Republicans initially dismissed the idea, and Trump also seemed ambivalent when reporters asked him about it aboard Air Force One.

TRUMP: I don't want to talk about a third term now, because no matter how you look at it, we've got a long time to go… But despite that, so many people are saying, 'you've gotta run again'. They love the job we're doing.

But then last month, Trump changed his tune: he told NBC News he was seriously considering a third term, adding that he was, quote, not joking.

That encouraged grassroots organizers working to cultivate support for Congressman Ogles’ resolution.

TREJO: The founding fathers never put executive term limits into the Constitution. You know that came, you know, just during the 20th century…

Shane Trejo is the campaign leader for the Third Term Project. He says allowing a president to serve for three terms would not violate the founding fathers’ original intent for the office of president.

TREJO: So I don't see how it would be against the Founding Fathers intent to allow someone—I mean, allow the people to decide.

The challenge is that people since the Founders have decided to put limits on the executive office with the 22nd amendment.

MARK CALEB SMITH: That's the one that was passed after Franklin Roosevelt's presidency, primarily in response to Roosevelt being elected to four terms.

Mark Caleb Smith teaches American politics at Cedarville University. He says the amendment, ratified in 1951, closes the door to Trump running for a third term.

Some supporters of a third Trump term suggest another route: Trump could run as Vice President J.D. Vance’s running mate in the next election and then have Vance step aside after the pair gets into office.

But Smith says an amendment ratified in 1804 closes that loophole.

SMITH: The problem there is the 12th Amendment says pretty clearly that in order to be considered Vice President, you have to be eligible to the office of the presidency. In that language, no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of president shall be eligible to that of Vice President of the United States.

But others say the maneuver does have potential, and the current text of the Constitution might allow Trump to serve a third term. Brad Jacob teaches Constitutional Law at Regent University’s Law School.

JACOB: The 12th Amendment says you may not be vice president if you're not eligible to serve as president. And the 22nd Amendment doesn't say you're not eligible to serve. It says you're not eligible to be elected. And so because those amendments don't track the same language, I think that's a viable scenario.

As for amending the constitution entirely to eliminate any confusion about Trump’s ability to take on a third term. Jacob says that would never happen.

JACOB: In today's political climate there is no chance of any constitutional amendment being enacted. Period. Much less one as controversial as this would be.

There are several ways to amend the Constitution, but they all require three-fourths of the states to approve the amendment and would likely require two-thirds of both Congressional chambers to approve it as well.

So if the path to a third term is legally problematic, why talk about it now? Smith from Cedarville University says the conversation challenges the perception of Trump as a lame-duck president.

SMITH: I think it’s fair to say that the Trump administration so far has been controversial. Pretty extensive amount of criticism, pushback. Maybe this is really an effort to distract from that kind of criticism. So it could be this is really just as much as a public relations decision as a policy decision.

A recent YouGov poll says more than half of American adults think Trump will probably try to obtain a third term one way or another. Less than one-third of respondents think he’ll most likely be done at the end of this term.

Shane Trejo says whether Trump serves a third term should be up to the people.

TREJO: We're not calling for anything like imposing President Trump, you know, making him the president, you know, without the consent of the people, he would be on the ballot, and the people could choose whether or not that they wanted him.

Reporting for WORLD, I’m Josh Schumacher.

LINDSAY MAST: Turning now to tariffs: On Tuesday, members of the Senate Finance committee grilled the Trump Administration’s Trade Representative, Jamieson Greer. The hearing comes after days of market turmoil that have left many constituents concerned for their businesses and retirement accounts. Lawmakers wanted answers about how far the President will go with tariffs and how much pain the American economy might endure.

NICK EICHER: Washington Bureau reporter Carolina Lumetta was in the room and has the story.

CAROLINA LUMETTA: The U.S. buys substantially more from other countries than it sells. And Trade Representative Jamieson Greer says that last year’s $1.2 trillion trade deficit is cause for alarm.

GREER: President Trump imposed tariffs to address this emergency. And these measures are aimed squarely at achieving reciprocity and reducing our massive trade deficit to reshore production in the United States.

Since President Trump’s tariff announcement last week, the stock markets have tumbled and other countries have imposed retaliatory tariffs. While economists estimate that the tariffs will add hundreds of dollars in extra costs per American household, Greer said he doesn’t trust their math.

GREER: This adjustment may be challenging at times, and in a moment of drastic overdue change, I'm confident, I'm certain that the American people can rise to the challenges as they've done before.

Lawmakers aren’t so sure. Constituents working in industries like farming, meat production, and tourism have been hounding their representatives to get clarity. Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma represents garment manufacturers who rely on overseas factories for production. They’ve had less than a week to figure out how to change their business models.

LANKFORD: they're asking me about exclusions and exceptions and how this is going to be handled to say, “We can't buy it in America, this is the only place that's actually manufacturing it.” I know long-term, the hope is to be able to have it more diversified, but in the short term, they don't have another option. How do you plan to handle that?

GREER: Senator, the president has been clear with me and with others that he does not intend to have exclusions and exemptions, especially given the nature of the action. If you have Swiss cheese in the action, it can undermine the overall point, which is to get rid of the deficit, achieve reciprocity.

Senators also complained about the global approach to tariffs. Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana said he does want the administration to eliminate trade barriers. But he suggested a more targeted approach.

CASSIDY: I'll also hear from my producers that the mean tariff being selected to apply to a country may not account that for rice, for example, the tariff is much higher for that particular product and that it is not adequate to address that which is taking place. Any thoughts on that and how can we have something more particular for products which are really over-tariffed?

Greer replied that other countries are welcome to come up with alternative plans for the president’s consideration but the administration will not be making exceptions for particular products.

Democratic senators from Rhode Island, Nevada, and Colorado all shared concerns from constituents about how high tariffs could strangle the supply chain, shutter small businesses, and hurt local economies. Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson, a Republican, agreed that while tariffs are aimed at corporations and governments overseas, businesses here at home will suffer in the short term.

RON JOHNSON: I don't often agree with the members on the other side of the aisle. But in many cases here today, particularly when they're expressing concern about small businesses in their states, I hope you and the President are very sensitive about companies potentially going bankrupt by these actions. Again, we want fair trade, but I hope you recognize, you know, tariffs are a double-edged sword. I would argue it's a somewhat blunt instrument.

Greer says 50 countries have started talks with the administration on how to lower the trade deficit, though President Trump has said tariffs aren’t going away. Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley said he doesn’t want to see the tariffs stick around forever.

GRASSLEY: Do you plan to turn these tariffs into trade deals, to reduce tariffs, and non-tariff barriers. I support that. On the other hand, if the purpose is to stall on negotiations in order to keep tariffs high for the sole purpose of feeding the U.S. Treasury, I oppose that. So, is this administration for trade reciprocity or for treasury replenishment?

GREER: I think the answer, Senator, is it's going to be country by country.

Democratic senators questioned Greer on the viability of that approach. Senator Catherine Cortez-Masto of Nevada asked about a previous trade agreement Greer helped negotiate during Trump’s first term between the United States, Mexico, and Canada.

CORTEZ-MASTO: How long did it take to negotiate that agreement, the USMCA, that you were part of?

GREER: We did it at breakneck speed. We did it in about two years.

CORTEZ-MASTO: Two years, and now you're telling us you have nearly 50 countries coming to you, approaching you to enter in a negotiation. And you think that you can do that overnight? - India for-- Man, you're pretty superhuman here, if that's the case. So let's be realistic.

Throughout the hearing, Greer pushed back on arguments for a more incremental approach, arguing that for Trump 2.0, the trade deficit is of highest concern.

GREER: The trade deficit has been decades in the making, and it’s not going to be fixed overnight.

Reporting for WORLD, I’m Carolina Lumetta in Washington.

NICK EICHER, HOST: Next up on The World and Everything in It: Remembering the Armenian genocide.

The month of April is Armenian Heritage Month. Armenian communities in this country are hosting events to honor the memory of those killed in the Armenian Genocide that began in 1915.

Last week on Capitol Hill, Armenian Americans met with lawmakers to mark the tragedy.. They’re also pressing for sanctions on the government of Azerbaijan—complaining about its aggressive tactics in 2023 over a disputed territory known internationally as Nagorno-Karabakh. They don’t even agree on the name—with Armenians calling it Artsakh.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: With peace talks nearing a conclusion, tensions remain high between Azerbaijan and Armenians. To help explain the more than century-old dispute, WORLD’s Jenny Lind Schmitt has a WORLD Tour special report.

AUDIO: Armenian and Azerbaijani officials said Thursday they had agreed to a peace agreement to end the nearly four decades of conflict between the two nations…

JENNY LIND SCHMITT: In mid-March, Armenia and Azerbaijan announced they had finalized a peace treaty to bring their 35-year hostilities to an end.

AUDIO: At the moment, the existing content of the agreement can be considered a compromise option that may be acceptable in our current circumstances. It is acceptable for the republic of Armenia.

That’s Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan on March 13th. But before the document could be signed, Azerbaijan announced further conditions for peace.

Azerbaijan wants Armenia to amend its constitution to remove all references to unity with Nagorno-Karabakh. That’s the region that Azerbaijan recaptured in late 2023. Azerbaijan promised amnesty and peace to the ethnic Armenians living in Nagorno-Karabakh when it invaded the region.

Jacob Pursley is pastor of the International Bible Church of Armenia in Yerevan.

JACOB PURSLEY: But as people were exiting and leaving the country,

The entire Armenian population of 120-thousand fled to mainland Armenia.

PURSLEY: … they kept back at least 23 people that they took, as I call them, hostages.

Azerbaijani forces arrested the leaders of the autonomous region, accusing them of terrorism.

PURSLEY: So the president of Artsakh, Ruben Vardanyan…Ruben Vardanyan,... you have all of these different people that are now, uh, facing these mock trials, uh, being accused of 2548 crimes.

But with the territory firmly in Azerbaijan’s control, what’s the point of the trial?

Stepan Sargsyan is former governor of the Lachin region.

STEPAN SARGSYAN: First, it can be used as a leverage in the ongoing negotiations over a peace treaty with the Armenian government. Second, it is a show trial for its domestic audience for the president of Azerbaijan.

Sargsyan says Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev has used the ongoing conflict with Armenia to distract his own citizens from corruption in his decades long dictatorship. Both he and Pursley fear Azerbaijan’s aggression towards Armenia may not be over.

PURSLEY: When you listen to their normal news cycles, you watch their documentaries, They say, that's our land. We want it back and we're going to get it back. It's just a matter of ten years from now, 15 years from now, when that will be. But that's the next step.

Meanwhile, Azerbaijan is working to systematically erase evidence that Armenians–and Christianity–have been in the region for 17 hundred years.

Caucasus Heritage Watch—or CHW—has used satellite technology since 2001 to monitor Armenian cultural sites in territories now held by Azerbaijan. It found that between 1997 and 2009, at least 108 of 159 historic churches, monasteries, and cemeteries were destroyed in the enclave of Nakhchivan.

Now CHW is seeing the same thing in Nagorno-Karabakh. Co-founder Lori Khatchadourian presented recent findings in February. Audio courtesy of The Promise Armenian Institute at UCLA.

AUDIO: CHW has thus far documented 14 destroyed sites, including 2 churches and 4 cemeteries. For example the 19th century St. Hovhannes Church in Shusa-Sushi was flattened between December 2023 and April 2024….We have documented 14 damaged sites, including 3 churches and 5 historic cemeteries.

In some cases, there is now an empty field where a church once stood. In others, new mosques have been built on the sites.

To protect their ancient heritage, many ethnic Armenians from Nagorno-Karabakh want to return to their homes, even if that means living under Azerbaijan’s rule.

On March 18, the senate of Switzerland passed a bill proposing a peace forum to help the treaty talks between the two countries. It also called for the right of the people to return to their homes in safety. The bill’s co-sponsor is Stefan Müller-Altermatt:

AUDIO: There is no voice for the people of Nagorno-Karabakh. They’re a third party. We want to give this third party–the people of Nagorno-Karabakh– a voice. That’s also why we wanted to have this peace forum.

Müller-Altermatt says the international community needs to put pressure on Azerbaijan because time is running out for people to return home.

Sargsyan says that while the conflict between the two countries has never been about religion, Azerbaijani President Aliyev is using religion to foment anti-Armenian sentiment.

SARGSYAN: In fact, Azerbaijan is intentionally trying to turn this into an interfaith conflict to gain the support of the wider Islamic world. Yet it's not. Armenia has great relationships with most, if not all Muslim Arab states. Like I said, Iran as well.

Because of those good relationships and its location, Armenia is strategic for the gospel. Particularly since the country has an open border with Iran.

PURSLEY: Armenia is the country here that offers a safe place for Iranians to come look. So they come to Armenia because they want to learn about Christianity.

Stepan Sargsyan prays it will stay that way for generations to come.

SARGSYAN: We have struggled for millennia as a Christian people to stay on this land, sticking to our faith. So we would like this message to resonate with all our Christian brothers in Europe and the United States, to help make sure that Christian churches and monasteries are not destroyed, just like they are being destroyed currently in Nagorno-Karabakh.

Reporting for WORLD, I’m Jenny Lind Schmitt.

NICK EICHER, HOST: So this happened at a New York appeals court last month.

JUDGE: “The appellant has submitted a video for his argument.”

What played next sounded convincing—for all of three seconds:

AUDIO: “May it please the court. I come here today a humble pro-se before a panel of five distinguished justices…”

JUDGE (interjecting): “Is this— is this—hold on. Is that counsel for the— case?”

APPELLANT: “I generated that. That, that is— n-not a real person.”

What a n-nightmare! The real person is Jerome Dewald. He’s representing himself, but intended AI-generated avatar to do the talking for him. The court was not pleased.

JUDGE: “I don’t appreciate being misled. You are not going to use this courtroom as a launch for your business, sir. So if you are able to— to—shut that off!”

Remarkably, the judge gave him a second chance.

JUDGE: “If you want to have oral argument time, you may stand up and give it to me. [I apologize.] You have five minutes.”

The moral of the story? In court, your case must be real—and it’s a good idea if you are, too.

It’s The World and Everything in It.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: Today is Wednesday, April 9th.

Thank you for turning to WORLD Radio to help start your day.

Good morning. I’m Lindsay Mast.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher.

Coming next on The World and Everything in It: the price of poultry.

Egg prices have flown the coop. So more people are wondering, “Why not raise my own hens?” But as eager newbies flock to local farm stores to buy chicks, they are finding some of what they found at the grocery store shopping for eggs: high prices and empty bins.

MAST: Not to mention long waitlists.

As it turns out, backyard chickens are more than just a fancy coop and a basket of fresh eggs.

So why are families going to such lengths to turn their backyards into miniature hobby farms? WORLD associate correspondent Theresa Haynes went to her local farm co-op in Monroe, Washington, to find out.

OTIS: They are so cute and fluffy.

THERESA HAYNES: Ten-year-old Otis Lloyd and his mom, Paige, are sitting in camping chairs in the Monroe Farm Co-op. They’re near the front of the line that winds throughout the store.

The mother-son duo have been waiting for almost two hours already, and they know it will be at least one more hour before the store releases its chicks for sale. They came prepared for the wait. Otis brought his Kindle and his math homework. Like most people in line, this is not their first attempt to get chicks.

A few days ago, they waited for two and a half hours and only came home with two chicks.

OTIS: Yeah, we got the last Jersey Giant.

Otis's criteria for bringing home chicks is simple. He is looking for the “cute ones,” but his mom is more picky. She wants layers that produce at least 250 eggs a year.

PAIGE: I look at egg size and production, and they just look at which ones are cute.

They need at least 10 more hens to replace the 15 chickens the family lost in a coyote attack this year.

PAIGE: This year we're restocking more because the coyotes got 15 in one night. They tunneled under hardwood cloth and 8000 volts of electric fence.

In the first weeks of the chick season, more than 250 people showed up at the Monroe Co-op, creating traffic around the store and long lines inside. The farm store sold 500 chicks in a few hours. The next week, they doubled that, selling 1,000 birds and turning away disappointed customers.

This year, national hatcheries are selling out of all their chick stock. Customers who want to buy online are finding that nearly all egg-laying varieties are unavailable until the fall.

Ashley Soto has worked at the Monroe co-op for four years. She says she’s never seen a demand like this year’s.

ASHLEY: It's definitely the egg shortage and egg prices that people have seen in the last couple of months. I’ve heard that directly from customers' mouths, and the bird flu last year unfortunately wiped out a lot of people's flocks, both production level and at a like backyard level.

Paige Lloyd who created an LLC to sell her eggs also suspects the high cost of grocery store eggs. But she says that’s not a great reason to begin chicken farming.

PAIGE: The actual cost of owning chickens and caring for them, is higher than paying $10 a dozen for eggs. But for us, we love it, and I think the eggs are healthier and better tasting.

Lloyd is a trained nurse and she homeschools her sons. She likes the hands-on science lessons of raising birds.

PAIGE: The first year, we hatched our own turkey eggs. That was our project that year, like growth and development and all those things in the turkey eggs, and we cared for them.

Another homeschooler is in today’s line, 13-year-old Laney Lancaster. She got up early to stand in line for a couple of rare chicken breeds. Laney says raising chickens is worth it.

LANEY: They're cute and their eggs are yummy and they're fun.

But Laney’s dad Brent sees a bigger picture. For him, the benefit in raising chickens is in the life lessons of caring for animals.

BRENT: I like it because of the aspect of the eggs. But caring for something teaches life lessons. So for children, young people, it's a life lesson for them to one, nurture, take care of the chickens, and then, you know, just like life aspects, there's life and death and things like that.

During the early days of the pandemic, Taimi Knowles and her two daughters began raising eggs. Having chickens in her urban backyard meant food security despite political uncertainties.

KNOWLES: If you have eggs, you at least have breakfast covered for your family.

And despite the costs involved with setting up a chicken coop, Taimi points out that it doesn’t have to be expensive. Chickens are foragers who eat grass, bugs and kitchen scraps.

KNOWLES: We don't throw food away ever. We always feed the chickens our food that we don't want, and sometimes we get expired food from the food bank that people can't eat. So that cuts down the food bill, cuts down on waste.

Taimi says gardening and raising chickens could go a long way towards national food security.

KNOWLES: If just a few houses on every block were growing enough food for every family to just have one meal, that would take a lot of burden off of our food supply chain.

While the short-term financial benefits of raising chickens may justify the initial investments necessary to start a backyard flock, the super-fans all seem to have one thing in common. They love chicks.

AUDIO: [Sound of chicks peeping]

Reporting for WORLD, I’m Theresa Haynes, in Monroe, Washington.

NICK EICHER, HOST: Today is Wednesday, April 9th. Good morning! This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Nick Eicher.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: And I’m Lindsay Mast. A case before the Supreme Court examines limits on the free exercise of religion and whether the right should extend beyond obvious “churchy” activities.

EICHER: WORLD Opinions contributor Daniel Suhr wrote a friend-of-the-court brief on behalf of Wisconsin organizations at the center of the case. He has a few thoughts for us now on how arguments went.

DANIEL SUHR: Justice Neil Gorsuch put his finger on the nub of the problem during recent oral arguments in an important religious liberty case: 

GORSUCH: Doesn’t it entangle the state tremendously when it has to go into a soup kitchen—send an inspector in—to see how much prayer is going on?

That’s the practical effect of a ruling by the Wisconsin Supreme Court now on review by the nation’s high court. Catholic Charities operates a variety of social service ministries: housing for low-income seniors, job programs for persons with physical and developmental disabilities, and day care for children. The Diocese opens its doors to anyone who needs its service—it doesn’t ask first if you’re Catholic, nor does it require anyone to attend Mass before accepting a free meal.

Because its activities do not look sufficiently “churchy,” the Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development determined that Catholic Charities did not qualify for a tax exemption for religious organizations. Wisconsin’s appellate courts agreed. The state reasoned that a religious motivation was not sufficient. The activities themselves had to have an explicitly religious cast to qualify for the exemption.

U.S. Supreme Court justices from across the jurisprudential spectrum seemed deeply skeptical of that conclusion. Justice Elana Kagan, for instance, pushed the attorney for the state:

KAGAN: There are lots of hard questions in this area. But I thought it was pretty fundamental that we don’t treat some religions better than other religions and we certainly don’t do it based on the contents of the religious doctrine that those religions preach.

Her question pointed to a second problem in the state’s case: Not all religious organizations do “churchy” things that would look like a typical religious activity, like services on a Sunday morning.

Indeed, this case should be one of the easy questions. The First Amendment protects religious organizations of all stripes. It protects the free exercise of religion…not only of worship but religion in all its manifestations and ministries. And the accompanying establishment clause frowns on the idea of a state bureaucrat conducting inspections to determine whether a given organization’s activities look religious enough.

That concern is doubly present here, as the tax exemption specifically applies to the state’s unemployment insurance system. Persons who lose their job due to misconduct at work qualify for specific benefits. Will we have inspectors on the front end determining whether a given ministry is religious enough? And then on the back end determining whether an employee’s personal choices in conflict with an employer’s faith expectations constitutes “misconduct”?

The state and the amicus briefs supporting it are horrified at the idea that not only Catholic Charities, but schools, colleges and universities, hospitals, nursing homes might also escape the government’s grasp through the Unemployment Insurance system and taxation.

That effort to narrow the religion clauses to only churches and ministries tightly tied to churches runs headlong into the Supreme Court’s precedents in recent years. Cases worth noting include Our Lady of Guadalupe School in 2020 and Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School in 2012. In both cases the Court recognized the First Amendment’s free exercise protections embrace church-affiliated ministries like K-12 schools. The Court wrote in Our Lady: “The religious education and formation of students is the very reason for the existence of most private religious schools.” That’s even if the private religious school spends more time on reading, writing, and arithmetic than on explicitly religious education.

I am hopeful for a 9-0 decision in this case that reaffirms the core principles of the First Amendment: The free exercise of religion encompasses all faith-motivated ministry, even those ministries that have secular, non-religious counterparts, and the establishment clause means the government should steer clear of inspecting and supervising religious activities.

I’m Daniel Suhr.

NICK EICHER, HOST: Tomorrow: a Canadian crosses the world to defend a post on X. What happened when freedom of speech took center stage in an Australian courtroom. And, ever wonder what happens to lost luggage that is really lost? We’re on the case. That and more tomorrow.

I’m Nick Eicher.

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: And I’m Lindsay Mast.

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