The World and Everything in It: April 28, 2025

JENNY ROUGH, HOST: Good morning!

A showdown at the Supreme Court asking whether public schools can promote gender ideology … without giving religious parents an opt-out.

JUSTICE ALITO: ‘Bobby and Jamie love each other,’ said Mommy, ‘when grown-up people love each other that much, sometimes they get married.’ I mean that’s subtly sending the message this is a good thing. 

NICK EICHER, HOST: That’s ahead on Legal Docket.

Also today, the Monday Moneybeat. And the WORLD History Book. Today, two brave men who make a costly decision.

CHAMBERS: My grandmother was whispering in my head: look idiot, I didn’t teach you to be in charge of anything and let women and children drown.

ROUGH: It’s Monday, April 28th. This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Jenny Rough.

EICHER: And I’m Nick Eicher. Good morning!

ROUGH: Up next, Kent Covington with today’s news.

KENT COVINGTON, NEWS ANCHOR: Ukraine-Russia peace talks » President Trump is expressing some doubt about whether Russia truly wants peace … and is threatening fresh sanctions against Moscow. That follows his weekend meeting at the Vatican with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio told NBC’s Meet the Press:

RUBIO:  This week is gonna be a really important week in which we have to make a determination about whether this is an endeavor that we want to continue to be involved in, or if it's time to sort of focus on some other issues that that are equally, if not more important in some cases.

The president, for months, has been optimistic, at least publicly … about Vladimir Putin’s desire to end the war. But in light of recent Russian attacks on civilian areas in Ukraine while peace talks are ongoing … Trump is now openly questioning Putin’s intentions.

Russian Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov reacted saying Moscow doesn’t focus on Trump rhetoric.

LAVROV:  We concentrate on the real negotiations which President Trump supports and instructed his people to continue to engage, not on uh, thinking, you know, failures or victories.

Lavrov says he expects a Trump Putin meeting in the coming weeks.

Iran nuclear » And speaking of negotiations, U.S. and Iranian officials gathered once again in Oman over the weekend for the latest round of nuclear talks. Both sides described the meeting as "serious and productive."

U.S. diplomats noted the exchange of written proposals for the first time.

But … Iran’s foreign minister expressed "extreme caution" about the talks' … saying the two sides remain far apart on some key issues.

GOP Sen. John Kennedy, though, says it’s in Iran’s best interest to resolve those issues at the bargaining table.

KENNEDY:  If Iran gets a weapon or is days away from getting a weapon, there will be a war. Uh, Iran won't start it and America won't start it. Israel will.

President Trump last week said he believes a deal is possible, but added that he wouldn’t hesitate to take military action to prevent a nuclear-armed Iran if necessary.

Iran explosion » Meantime, in southern Iran …

SOUND: [Iran jet]

A jet heard there dropping water over a thick cloud of black smoke billowing over a port.

That after a massive explosion Saturday reportedly linked to the shipment of a chemical used to make missile propellant. A defense ministry spokesperson denied that such a chemical had been at the port.

State media says at least 25 people were killed and some 800 others were injured in the blast.

Trade/tariffs » Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent says new trade deals are now coming together with countries around the world. He told ABC’s This Week:

BESSENT:  We have a process in place over the next 90 days to, uh, negotiate with them. Some of those are moving along very well, especially the, with the Asian countries.

President Trump earlier this month pauses reciprocal tariffs for most nations for 90 days amid trade talks.

Opponents have slammed the president's tariffs plan, fearing economic uncertainty.

Bessent also believes the US will work out a new trade deal with China … sooner or later. He says the Chinese economy relies heavily on exports to the United States.

U.S. judges arrested »  Federal officials are vowing to prosecute any government official that flouts immigration law. That after authorities arrested two judges on Friday.

Assistant Homeland Security Secretary Tricia McLaughlin says DHS and the Justice Department will enforce the law.

MCLAUGHLIN:  Since President Trump took office, we've seen these activist judges trying to subvert the will of the American people.

Federal prosecutors say Wisconsin Judge Hannah Dugan knew ICE agents were going to arrest an illegal immigrant facing battery charges after his hearing … and she allegedly helped him escape the courthouse.

From there, ICE agents had to chase him down the street.

Republican Congressman Bryan Steil of Wisconsin …

STEIL:  Allowing the defendant to get loose onto the street, allowing a foot chase to take place, puts the lives of officers at risk. And this criminal complaint makes it very clear, a large number of witnesses. It reads like a case book case of obstruction. 

An attorney for the judge said she will "defend herself vigorously and looks forward to being exonerated."

And in New Mexico, authorities accuse a former county judge, Joel Cano, and his wife … of harboring an illegal immigrant gang member … and tampering with evidence.

Vancouver car attack » Families are mourning today in Vancouver, British Columbia … after a man drove an SUV into a crowd of revelers at a street festival, killing at least 11 people.

Police have arrested a 30-year-old male suspect from Vancouver. Acting Vancouver Police Chief Steve Rai:

RAI:  That male was taken into custody at the scene by the crowd. Um, it was a Filipino community event. Uh, the crowd immediately called police. We then took custody of the subject.

More than 20 others were injured Saturday night in the apparent attack. Investigators said Sunday that they’re not ruling anything out just yet … but they were not classifying it as terrorism.

Tens of thousands of people were celebrating Lapu Lapu Day festival in South Vancouver.

I’m Kent Covington. 

Straight ahead: on Legal docket… A battle over parental rights in schools. Plus, the WORLD History Book.

This is The World and Everything in It.

NICK EICHER, HOST: At the U.S. Supreme Court last week, a debate you might once have considered unthinkable: Whether public schools can require four-year-olds to read about drag queens, about leather culture, about same-sex marriage—and whether parents have any right to shield their young children from it.

JUSTICE NEIL GORSUCH: That's the one where they are supposed to look for the leather and things and bondage things like that—

ALAN E. SCHOENFELD: It’s not bondage—” …

JUSTICE AMY CONEY BARRETT: It’s a drag queen—

GORSUCH: —drag queen—a drag queen.

SCHOENFELD: —the leather that they're pointing to is a woman in a leather jacket, and one of the words is drag queen—

GORSUCH: And they’re supposed to look for those?

SCHOENFELD: It is an option at the end of the book, correct.

JUSTICE SAMUEL ALITO: What are the ages of the children who were involved here?

ERIC BAXTER: These books were approved for a pre-K which in Montgomery County can start as early as three if they're going to turn four that fall.

If they’re going to turn 4 in the Fall … they’ll read of a little girl whose mom agrees with her: that she’s a boy … or about a favorite uncle marrying his boyfriend.

ALITO: It expresses the idea, subtly, but it expresses the idea, this is a good thing. “‘Mommy,’ said Chloe, ‘I don't understand. Why is Uncle Bobby getting married?’” 

“‘Bobby and Jamie love each other,’ said Mommy, ‘… when grown-up people love each other that much, sometimes they get married.’”
I mean, that's subtly sending a message this is a good thing.

BARRETT: It's not just some people think X, some people think Y. It's saying, ‘This is the right view of the world. This is how we think about things. This is how you should think about things.’ This is like two plus two is four.

CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS: Counsel, you said that nothing in the policy requires students to affirm what’s being taught or what’s being presented in the books. Is that a realistic concept where you’re talking about a five-year-old?

Today on Legal Docket, the clash between parental rights, religious freedom, and the vision for public education.It’s Monday the 28th of April, and you’re listening to The World and Everything in It from WORLD Radio. Good morning! I’m Nick Eicher.

JENNY ROUGH, HOST: And I’m Jenny Rough. We’ll get to the legal arguments in a moment. But first … I can’t unpack this case without laying a foundation. So I’ll begin by shining a light on a basic belief held through the ages and largely still today—regardless of faith. Namely, this:

ELIZABETH URBANOWICZ: The family is the primary vehicle through which children should be learning about sexuality.

Elizabeth Urbanowicz of Foundation Worldview. Her organization develops resources to equip adults to teach kids how to carefully evaluate ideas and understand truth. Her materials include guidance for parents talking to their kids about sex. 

URBANOWICZ: From a Biblical perspective, I would say that the public school system, or even the Christian school system, or even the church should never be the ones introducing sexuality to children. That is always the responsibility of the family. 

One best begun early.

URBANOWICZ: We recommend that parents have the first of many sex and sexuality talks with their children around the age of four.

Not every single detail … but at least the fundamentals.

URBANOWICZ: If we want our children to come to us with their questions, and we want them to have an understanding that sexuality is an inherently good gift from God, we have to start these conversations before the world does.

EICHER: Indeed, the world is starting these conversations earlier and earlier … leaving many parents in the dust. But a group of parents in Montgomery County Maryland is pushing back … and last week pushed all the way to the Supreme Court, where eyebrows raised—and jaws dropped—over the legal arguments around exposure to controversial ideas versus coercion to embrace them.Initially, the school board respected the freedom to disagree. It gave parents the freedom to opt out of a child’s lesson if the objectionable books are read or taught. But when too many families exercised the freedom, the board reversed course: No opt-outs. No exceptions.

Three families sued—Muslim, Catholic, and Ukrainian Orthodox … arguing their First Amendment rights were violated.

ROUGH: The question before the high court is simple but weighty: Is the government burdening families’ rights freely to exercise their religion by refusing the opt-outs?The school board argues it’s simply trying to foster civility in a pluralistic community. Attorney Alan Schoenfeld:

ALAN SCHOENFELD: Students do not need to accept, agree with or affirm anything they read. … The lesson is that students should treat their peers with respect.

The parents don’t buy it. They say this is about indoctrination. Here’s their attorney, Eric Baxter, highlighting the beliefs the books clearly set forth.

ERIC BAXTER: ... among other controversial matters, doctors guessed at their sex when they were born, and that anyone who disagrees is hurtful and unfair. Forcing petitioners to submit their children to such instruction violates their religious beliefs. 

There’s a reason the First Amendment is first … and out of its compact 45 words protecting five express freedoms … religion is first. No surprise, then, oral argument ran for an extraordinary two and a half hours!The First Amendment says that Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. That’s been extended also to limit state government entities from interfering. Public school boards, for example.

EICHER: And the Supreme Court has held that the First Amendment includes the right of parents to guide the religious education and upbringing of their children. 

Going back to 1972 … the court took up the case Wisconsin versus Yoder. It involved a state mandate in Wisconsin requiring kids to attend public school until the age of 16. Yoder stood for Amish families who wanted their children educated at home by age 14 to avoid the worldly influences of high school. In the case, the court sided with the Amish … saying the requirement placed an unconstitutional burden on the religious rights of the families.
Likewise, the parents here argue the school board has burdened their religious beliefs. 

ROUGH: Burden is key. The threshold inquiry is whether the school board’s policy places a free-exercise burden on the parents.In the educational context, there’s disagreement on how to interpret the word.
The parents argue the test of what amounts to an unconstitutional burden … is whether the government interferes with the parents’ rights. They say in this case, it does. They say that kids in their years of innocence … when taught information about sex … must have moral principles included. Their faith calls for it and no government can take that away.

EICHER: Significantly … the Montgomery County Maryland school board allows middle school kids to opt-out of sex education. So Justice Elena Kagan asked the attorney for the parents where he’d draw the line on opt outs.

JUSTICE KAGAN: Does it matter what the subject matter is? Does it matter what the age of the child is? Does it matter what the nature of the instruction is?

EICHER: She asked what about a 16-year-old in a biology class on evolution?Justice Sonia Sotomayor added more examples. What about books on women who work outside of the home? Divorce? Interfaith marriage?
The parents’ attorney Baxter said opt outs for religious beliefs apply regardless. 

Again, Justice Kagan:

KAGAN: That’s a pretty broad rule. It will be like, you know, opt-outs for everyone.

ROUGH: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson disagreed that parents lack an opt-out here. Parents can homeschool … or send their kids to private school, notwithstanding the expense.

JUSTICE BROWN-JACKSON: In so many other constitutional doctrines, we don't focus on whether people actually can afford to protect their rights. ... You still have the right to get an attorney in a civil case even if you can’t afford it.

ROUGH: The school board argues the test for burden is far more difficult to prove. It goes beyond exposure. The standard is coercion. Mere exposure to the books … it argues … doesn’t compel kids to affirm the ideas the books present.But Chief Justice John Roberts questioned the logic.

ROBERTS: I mean, I understand the idea when you're talking about a sophomore or junior, whatever in high school, you know, where the point is you want them to sort of push back on some of this, but I'm not sure that same qualifying factor applies when you're talking about five year olds.

ROUGH: You may notice this is all theory. That’s because the issue here is a preliminary injunction the parents sought … to stop any harm before it happens. As a result … the record is pretty sparse as far as how the books have actually been used in classrooms.Justice Barrett acknowledged that much. But she also pointed out that to the extent they are used, the books present a worldview clearly contrary to the parents’ sincere beliefs.
If the justices decide it was wrong for the lower court to define burden as coercion … that instead if the proper definition of “burden” is interference … then the inquiry could stop here, and the case sent back for proper analysis.

EICHER: But there are other arguments the parties served up, too.
Under Employment Division versus Smith, the analysis the court would perform is whether the opt-out policy is (a) neutral and (b) generally applicable. The parents say it’s not (b)—not generally applicable—because the county allows discretionary opt-outs for things like Valentine’s Day and birthdays, but draws a line for storybooks. So failing even a single prong of that test would mean the policy would face the highest legal standard of review … strict scrutiny, a very difficult standard for a state to meet.
Another pathway to a strict scrutiny analysis is to show the county’s policy was not neutral … that it was motivated by hostility toward religion.

ROUGH: Mary Rice Hasson is cofounder of the Person and Identity Project at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. It filed a friend of the court brief on behalf of the Maryland parents.She adds two more important considerations:

MARY HASSON: When the state in the form of the teacher in a public school classroom is representing something, it carries a lot more weight the younger the child is. … The teacher in the classroom, and this is the voice of authority. And then you're setting up this conflict between what they're learning at home. … I was surprised there wasn't a little bit more emphasis on that.

The second consideration: the lack of consensus on gender ideology … the notion that there’s more than two sexes, that boys can become girls—

HASSON: There is huge disagreement even just from people who look at this from a scientific perspective and say, “This isn’t accurate.” …. And that was another element I was a little bit disappointed didn’t come up. … Over the past few years … we've seen a whole lot of evidence coming out and people understanding that this is not what it purports to be. This is a belief system that's not based on science. 

I also spoke with a number of authors of children’s books about this case. One was Rosemary Wells. She’s been in the industry since her first book in 1967. Wells describes herself as a dyed-in-the-wool liberal.

ROSEMARY WELLS: From the North, from a blue state. … And I’m the grandmother of a trans child. 

And yet … she sympathizes with the parents.

WELLS: I think they are worried about their children’s innocence. And I worry about that, too. … I would gladly, as a parent, go along with a school program that preserves children’s innocence over any sexual topic discussed too early.

She says it’s never too early to learn about the natural world.

WELLS: Kids need to learn about elephants and volcanos and stars. [laughs] They need to learn how to read for heaven’s sake. … They don’t need to learn about sexual identity in the primary grades.Wait until junior high, then the subject can be discussed. We need peace in the valley of our schools.

ROUGH:  She says there are plenty of children's books out there that take a stand against bullying, teasing, and excluding … without the age-inappropriate sexual messaging.

Justice Brett Kavanaugh grew up in Montgomery County. He said he’s “mystified” about what’s happened, especially given that Maryland was founded as a safe haven for Catholics escaping religious persecution in England. He gave the school board attorney a chance to address that. Listen to Justice Kavanaugh’s response.

SCHOENFELD: Montgomery County Public Schools are the most religiously diverse in the country. … Montgomery County did its best under these circumstances given their curricular goals.

KAVANAUGH: Thank you. It’s a tough case to argue. I appreciate it.

ROUGH: That’s how you show civility and respect to someone you disagree with. And that’s this week’s Legal Docket. 

EICHER: One more note before we go …In addition to hearing this case, the court issued a 5 to 4 decision in an immigration case. When calculating the 60-day period for the voluntary departure of a non-citizen, weekends and holidays don’t count. Say the 60th day is a Saturday … and Monday is the Fourth of July … the deadline would extend to Tuesday, the next business day.

JENNY ROUGH, HOST: Coming up next on The World and Everything in It: The Monday Moneybeat.

NICK EICHER, HOST: Time now to talk business, markets, and the economy with financial analyst and adviser David Bahnsen. David heads up the wealth management firm The Bahnsen Group. He is here now. Good morning to you, David.

DAVID BAHNSEN: Good morning, Nick, Good to be with you.

EICHER: So … 200 trade deals already … the president told Time magazine in an exclusive interview suggesting everything will be in place within weeks. At the White House last week, President Trump said this:

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I can’t think of one country that doesn’t want to negotiate a deal. And, they either negotiate a deal or we set a deal that we think is fair.

The reporter at Time who did the interview went on CNN to promote the interview and confessed he didn’t really understand what the president was saying … and I get that sometimes he’s difficult to read. But what is the reality of the dealmaking around tariffs and the trade war? Do you have any sense of the progress?

BAHNSEN: Yeah, some may assume I’m being critical or accusing the administration of duplicitousness, and that’s not at all the case. I do think a lot of the dealmaking is going to be cosmetic because for the very simple reason that there are a lot of countries we’re trying to get deals with that we do not now have bad deals with.

You know, this is the reason, for example, that a deal with Japan has not been announced. We’ve set this whole thing up around the idea that we need to “charge them what they charge us.” But the problem with Japan is we charge them more than they charge us. I don’t think the administration wants to come out and announce: “Hey, good news, we got Japan to raise their tariffs on us.”

The fact is that we really are dealing with China. Yet the administration brought all these other countries in and now they have to announce deals where a lot of the predicate was just not totally accurate.

Yet, I do think an India deal is coming. A lot of the deals, Nick, will not end up as, “Japan was charging us 10% percent and now they’re only going to charge us 5%.” More likely, it’ll be to open up more markets for us on certain agricultural products. Or India agreed not to have this trade barrier or other things outside tariff percentages. A lot of those deals will come.

Look, you can’t do 90 deals, with 90 countries, in 90 days if they’re real substantive deals. I know how much the president loves dealmaking, and it’s been the kind of essence of his career for decades. But these types of trade deals, if we mean by them the same thing we’ve historically meant—exhaustive, comprehensive, legal, sustainable, enforceable documents—most of those have taken years to negotiate.

So really what you’re going to get is not a deal. You’re going to get a framework. And that is probably going to be good enough for the president. It’s certainly going to serve as an off ramp. But, you know, you announce 20 deals in the next two or three weeks.

If one of them is not China, it doesn’t matter. The country that the world is looking to, that the U.S. economy is looking to, is China. You know, when we’re importing as much as we are, China is a big elephant in the room that has to be resolved for the sake of U.S. commercial interests.

EICHER: All right, that Time interview I referred to was for the occasion of the 100-day mark of the second Trump presidency. And I think probably too much is made of these milestones … but we are seeing lots of media stories about this one. The actual 100th day is Wednesday, so what’s on your report card so far?

BAHNSEN: Well, I know you’re not meaning to ask me about that politically. You mean kind of in the interest of the economy. It’s hard because, like a lot of people on the conservative right and as a man of faith, there’s a lot that I’m happy with, and there are things I’m not happy with.

That answer is so unsatisfying to people these days—because they want me to say all good things or all bad things.

But if I’m being totally objective, the first hundred days has been good for a lot of the non-economic factors—you know, things that a lot of people really are excited about, and I’m one of them, to get rid of all the DEI throughout government and those types of things.

So please I hope everyone hears me. I’m not taking away from anything administration’s done. But economically, I really do believe that the way this trade war was conducted, even if some of the objectives are understandable, I think it’s been very counterproductive. It’s put the economy in a very precarious position.

I do not believe we were headed into a recession. I think that with deregulation and energy independence and some of the better policies the president was going to administer, inflation was already coming down. Job growth was healthy. We were on a good economic footing and now we’re not. And the reason was pretty self-induced.

We could have really isolated China to begin with, made it more of a geopolitical issue than macroeconomic, and allowed us to go get that budget reconciliation bill done to pass some tax reform. That would’ve meaningfully, permanently, reliably extended to the tax cuts and allowed some of those economic benefits to sink in. Then let that be the foundation to other things he wanted to do in his agenda, like securing the border that I’m so complimentary of. Some, not all, of the DOGE things (Department of Government Efficiency) I’m complimentary of.

But, yeah, the trade war thing, you know, that’s been a big deal and it has hampered his agenda. That’s my honest opinion.

EICHER: Before we go, David, let me play some audio from the director of the Department of Government Efficiency, Elon Musk:

ELON MUSK: As people know there's been some blowback for the time that I’ve been spending in government with the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE. Starting next month, I'll be allocating far more of my time to Tesla. My time allocation to DOGE will drop significantly.

What do you think about this: Is this an admission that government work is a little harder than it looks?

BAHNSEN: You know, it’s funny, I took it differently. I took it as him saying to the Tesla shareholders, this won’t be a permanent thing. From the vantage point of Tesla, not from the vantage point of DOGE or the government, but Tesla’s down like 50% since everything started here—and he’s saying, “I’m not going to be doing DOGE forever. I have some things to do. They’re very important. And if we don’t improve certain issues with government efficiency and debt and whatnot, we’re not going to have a country to sell cars in.”

He said all that stuff, but then he was really trying to say there’s a shelf life to what this DOGE deal will be. I assume that was always the case.

You may be right, by the way, that some of the reason he’ll accelerate a return to the private sector is because he doesn’t like what he’s having to do in the government sector. I know I wouldn’t like it.

But I think a lot of that was more just giving the foreshadowing to the Tesla shareholders that “I do intend to be back.”

EICHER: David Bahnsen, founder, managing partner, and chief investment officer of The Bahnsen Group. David writes at WORLD Opinions and at dividendcafe.com. Thanks … we’ll see you next week!

BAHNSEN: Thanks, Nick, sounds good!

NICK EICHER, HOST: Today is Monday, April 28th. Good morning! This is The World and Everything in It from listener-supported WORLD Radio. I’m Nick Eicher.

JENNY ROUGH, HOST: And I’m Jenny Rough. Up next, the WORLD History Book. Today, the story of two daring men.

AUDIO: The sky over Saigon was filled with dozens of assorted aircraft: helicopters, transports, even fighter bombers, in a nameless whirling merry-go-round over the city.

It’s April 29th, 1975 … the last full day of the Vietnam War. North Vietnamese forces are closing in on Saigon and the U.S. is scrambling to evacuate.

EICHER: This is how the CBS Evening News reported the chaos.

CBS NEWS: It looked as though every pilot in the South Vietnamese Air Force who could get his hands on an aircraft had decided that now was the time to get away. 

Life-or-death decisions for desperate pilots on a South Vietnamese military base. Here’s WORLD correspondent Caleb Welde.

CALEB WELDE: Buang-Ly is one of those pilots. He knows this base will be overrun today. He’s desperate. He loads his wife and five children into a single-engine, two seater Cessna. He’s technically stealing the military plane. But then again, his country’s military won’t even exist for much longer. Buang-Ly’s kids are all under age six. He and his family take off and head out to sea. They have no plan. This plane doesn't even have a radio.

The same moment, Larry Chambers is standing on the bridge of the U.S. aircraft carrier Midway. He's doing his best to command the chaos. The Midway is sitting a hundred miles off the Vietnamese coast. Dozens of helicopters have already unloaded more than a thousand refugees onto the deck. Twenty more helicopters circle the ship waiting for their chance to land. There’s nowhere else to go.

CHAMBERS: 50 people got out of a Huey.

This is Larry Chambers – captain of the Midway– speaking at a reunion in 2019.

CHAMBERS: Now, Huey is designed for 10 combat Marines or 10 combat army guys, fully armed for combat.

H-53 helicopters are unloading two hundred people at a time. They’re going to have to start moving people to other ships.

Back in the Cessna, Buang-Ly still doesn’t know what to do. He’s been flying for thirty minutes now above the vast South China Sea. The sky is gray. Light rain speckles the windshield. Buang-Ly’s wife clutches their infant in the cargo space behind him. Then, a group of helicopters all heading in the same direction. Buang-Ly decides to follow.

Aboard the Midway, Chambers authorizes his Marines to use deadly force, searching evacuees if necessary. Then…

CHAMBERS: About noon… this guy shows up and tried to drop a note on board!

It’s Buang-Ly. He’s just buzzed the carrier in the stolen Cessna. The note missed the mark, and fell into the ocean.

CHAMBERS: He tried three or four times, and I think on the fourth try, the note stayed on board.

The note says, “Can you move these helicopter to the other side, I can land on your runway. I can fly 1 hour more. We have enough time to move. Please rescue me. Major Buang, wife, and 5 child.” Chambers’ commanding officer tells him, “Let the plane ditch.” He assures Chambers they can pick up any swimmers once the plane is in the water.

CHAMBERS: You knew, with that note on board, this guy was desperate. He was not going to ditch that airplane.

Chambers sees, through his binoculars, Buang-Ly’s wife holding their baby.

CHAMBERS: The airplane probably was going to flip over and everybody was going to drown. The major could swim, but all of those kids weren't strapped in.

Chambers rings up his deck operations guy and he orders him to clear the deck.

CHAMBERS: He said, Skipper, you gotta be kidding! And I'm saying, No, I'm not kidding. I'm going to give you some help.

Chambers gets on the ship-wide PA system to let everyone know what’s going on.

CHAMBERS: I gave Vern 2000 to 2500 warm bodies to help him make a ready deck.

Chambers has just defied a direct order.

CHAMBERS: The admiral was yelling at me not over one of the private circuits. He was yelling at me over the 23 MC until the whole bridge team was hearing my wonderful comments from the admiral, telling me about my ancestry and a few others. And I'm telling the bridge, I'm the idiot in charge. Don't pay any attention to it.

Soldiers push twenty-five helicopters into the ocean. Chambers speeds up the ship and turns into the wind.

CHAMBERS: Eight more Hueys showed up, and they landed too. No signal, right in the middle of it.

The crew of the Midway push those over the side, too. Then, they pack into the tower.

CHAMBERS: There were at least 2000 people up there watching the show, and when this guy landed, you could have heard him all the way to China. It was such a celebration.

Here’s Buang-Ly speaking at a reunion in 2010.

BUANG-LY: I never land on the aircraft carrier, but I don't have any other choice. But I thought I could do it, and I did it. Thank you, Captain Chamber, your decision of let me land is priceless.

Chambers could have been court martialed, but instead, he’s promoted.

CHAMBERS: Somebody coming out in a little airplane, dropping a note on board, and thinking some idiot on the other side is going to read the note, push a whole bunch of helicopters over the side to let him land, and then not expect to be court martialed for it!? So, I’m as bad as Buang Ly. [LAUGHS] I mean he had the courage to come try it, and I was the idiot who said, we’re gonna give him a try.

Buang-Ly and his family eventually settle in Florida. Chambers and Buang-Ly still keep in touch.

BUANG-LY: Over these year, a lot of wonderful thing happen. My wife, my children and I become naturalized American citizen. My children now are grow up and some marry and start their new family.

So what made Larry Chambers do it? He says it’s simple…

CHAMBERS: My grandmother was whispering in my head, "Look, idiot, I didn’t teach you to be in charge of anything and let women and children drown."

That’s this week’s WORLD History Book. I’m Caleb Welde.

NICK EICHER, HOST: Tomorrow: Some pro-life groups want to defund Planned Parenthood and redirect that funding to pro-life centers … But it’s not as straightforward as it might sound. And, a North Carolina family touched by last year’s flooding and this year’s wildfires find home in the devastation. That and more tomorrow.

I’m Nick Eicher.

JENNY ROUGH, HOST: And I’m Jenny Rough.

The World and Everything in It comes to you from WORLD Radio. WORLD’s mission is Biblically objective journalism that informs, educates, and inspires.

The Bible says: “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!” —Romans 11:33

Go now in grace and peace.

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