The last safe place

LES SILLARS, HOST: From WORLD Radio, this is Doubletake. I’m Les Sillars.

Recently WORLD correspondent Caleb Welde brought you the story of Hawler Sheikhe. She’s a Syrian refugee who fled to Iraq after ISIS killed her father in 2014. In Iraq she became a Christian, along with her mother and sister.

SHEIKHE: My mind, it exploded and I just like studying the Bible after they gave it to me.

And then Hawler returned to Syria with the Free Burma Rangers. That’s a Christian aid group that goes into places too dangerous for most NGOs. They went into Syria in November of 2023. It was less than a month after Hamas attacked Israel on October 7. Caleb went with them.

Hawler went to share Christ with an uncle who’d threatened to have her and family killed for becoming Christians. She knocked on his door the first evening the Free Burma Rangers spent in Syria.

SHEIKHE: And he open it when he saw me he just slapped me. And yeah, he kicked me out, just go out.

But she refused to go. He threatened her with a knife. She shared Jesus. King Jesus not the prophet Jesus. And she ended up staying for two hours with her uncle, aunt, and three kids. Then she left. Came back to the compound. She could hardly believe she was still alive.

SHEIKHE: And when I just like, finished everything, I just, I just realized, Oh, I'm still alive. You know, I didn't know what I'm doing. I'm still alive? That was incredible experience that I've been through.

As we explained in our earlier episode, the Free Burma Rangers, Hawler, and Caleb went into Syria about a year before the Islamic terror group Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, or HTS, overthrew Syrian president Bashar al-Assad.

Before Assad’s downfall, northeastern Syria was in chaos. Assad’s army was just one of many players. Arabs, Turks, Kurds, Russians, Americans, and Iranians fought a series of low-level skirmishes amidst the remnants of ISIS.

Since Assad has fallen to HTS, things haven’t really improved in northeastern Syria. Iran and its terrorist proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah, have lost a lot of clout. But observers worry that Christians and other minorities will soon face persecution from one or another of the radical Islamist groups in the area.

So today, a journey into Syria. Then, as now, it was dangerous. Then, as now, a half-dozen countries and even more sects struggled for territory and control. More than half a million civilians have been killed in Syria since the Arab Spring Protests began in 2011. Fourteen million people have been driven out of their homes.

Until Assad fell, the West had largely ignored the conflict in Syria. However this turns out, the people there will likely remain right where they are now: stuck in a simmering conflict with no place to go.

Here’s Caleb with the rest of the story.

CALEB WELDE: Hawler made it back to our compound around 11 p.m. I had no idea what she had just been through. Or what to expect the next few weeks.

We’d crossed into eastern Syria along the Iraqi border. The plan was to travel around putting on medical trainings and Good Life Clubs, to check on several churches, at least one refugee camp, and an FBR hospital. All this was to be in between various meetings with local officials who were apparently going to lay out the red carpet for us. I guess it’s not often a dozen Westerners . volunteer to come to Syria. And continue coming back. We were also loaded down with several bins of Kurdish and Arabic audio bibles.

But back to day one. As I mentioned, for security reasons I won’t say which town we were in.

The morning after Hawler’s visit with her uncle, a man approached our vehicles as we got ready to head out. Five minutes later, Hawler and one of the Iraqi team members were playing one of the audio Bibles for the guy.

Then they left together– Hawler, the Syrian, and an American pastor–to the guy’s house for tea.

FREE BURMA RANGER: And he just received the Bible and audio Bible. And he was literally shocked. Like when I told him, We have audio Bible in your mother language. And he was like, Wow, that's crazy.

The next day, FBR’s main mission was to put on a Good Life Club. Good Life Clubs are like a short VBS. Kids hear about how they can know God through Jesus. The Rangers use several simple illustrations, and at the end, the kids receive a tee shirt, a toy, a snack, and a drink.

On the way to the Good Life Club, we passed several Russian military vehicles parked at a roundabout. The soldiers were standing on the sidewalk talking with several locals, but no one seemed to notice us and The Club went off without a hitch.

FREE BURMA RANGER: When I asked Jesus, what is the way, he shows me. [translator] He calls himself the way.

That evening, we drove to a family’s house for tea.

Some Rangers apparently met this family during the ISIS years and have stayed in touch ever since. Here, Bible in hand, Hawler found a way to read from the Gospel of John to the Muslim family.

SHEIKHE: So if you don't mind you guys, I wants to share chapter one, from one to 11.

The Muslim patriarch eventually shut her down.

PATRIARCH: Thank you very much, Thank you, Thank you, my sister. [LAUGHTER]

EUBANK: She’s not done yet man, you’re in trouble!

From there, we drove to a former ISIS prison to spend Sunday resting.

The roar of the jets above us made that hard. We didn’t know if the jets were American, Turkish, Russian, or Israeli. Hopefully they saw the neon orange, “don’t bomb me” humanitarian flags taped to the top of our vehicles. Apparently the jets sounded a lot like incoming bombs. When a jet flew especially close, a veteran Ranger woke up sprinting at full speed out of the building toward a ditch outside.

FREE BURMA RANGER: I was dead asleep dude. Me too. I didn't even know I was running through water. I just had my socks on and there's a nasty pool of water in the hallway. And I got back in there and water, why are my feet wet?

Monday, we drove deeper into Syria, through various deserts and towns.

We were trusting local Syrians with us to tell us which roads were safe and which were controlled by those who would immediately arrest us. Syria is home to one of the world’s oldest conflicts, and it’s left the country in shambles. Just the amount of trash along the roadsides was staggering to me. I remember thinking, “Where would you even start with a cleanup effort?”

The region we went through was controlled by well, it’s kind of hard to explain.

OK, first, a mental map of the region.

North of Syria is Turkey. To the east, Iraq. To the south, Jordan, and to the west, Israel and Lebanon.

Northeast Syria where we were is still mostly controlled by the SDF, or Syrian Democratic Forces. The SDF is actually a blanket term for a coalition of mostly Kurdish militias. These Kurdish malitas are the U.S. allies in the region.

Assad’s army held the southern and western regions around two-thirds of the country. They’re no longer in control, of course. HST and some smaller militias have supposedly taken their place.

Additionally, several other national forces also operated inside this northeast part, where we were inside the SDF’s territory. Turkey, which is just north of Syria, controlled then and still controls large swaths of northern Syria. It supports a another coalition of groups with ties to al Qaeda and ISIS called the Syrian National Army. Turkey and the Syrian National Army do not like the Kurdish SDF. Turkey has been battling armed Kurdish separatist groups inside its own borders for decades. They regard the Kurds in Syria as a serious national security threat.

ISIS was enemies with everyone in the region. And I mean, everyone. The SDF, Iran, Assad’s forces, Russia, and Al Qaeda. The Pentagon generally cites ISIS as the reason for continued American involvement in Syria.

Finally, Israel regularly carries out airstrikes in Syria. In 2023, it was to undermine Iran’s power in the region. After Assad fell, Israeli forces bombed Syrian military assets throughout the country and extended its occupation along the Golan Heights between it and Syria.

The situation is confusing today, and it was confusing when I was there in 2023. When we met people, there was no telling what kind of tragic, mixed-up story they might have.

For example, on the sixth day of our trip, Hawler was walking by a small convenience store in a town a few blocks from the Euphrates. She called to a slightly bent-over woman who’s desert face could’ve been forty-five or seventy-five. The boy with her looked seven or eight.

SHEIKHE: I just said, “Hi, hello!” And they just, woman came, And this is like a big chance from God to me. And I just like, Okay, well, we'll sit together on the street.

The trio sat down together on the curb.

SHEIKHE: I said, “It is that okay to be praying for you? And I'm Christian.” And she said, Yes. And she started to crying. So it was I started to ask her questions, “What's going on? Where are you from?”

The woman said she was from Aleppo, a Syrian city to the north. She’d apparently lost her husband and six children in Turkish airstrikes. She said the boy sitting next to her was her last child. He wasn’t wearing shoes. It was November.

Turkey is a NATO partner and has been in talks to buy 40 Lockheed Martin F-16s from the U.S. These talks have continued while Turkey bombs America’s other ally in the region, the SDF.

TRANSLATOR: The Turkish government doesn't, is not satisfied with this life for us, He wants it to make it even worse for us.

This is a Kurdish Syrian translator. He’s my age and has already been bombed a few times.

TRANSLATOR: So I can say, one month ago, it started like making airstrikes. It's true, like the infrastructure of the SDF.

He asked that we don’t name him.

TRANSLATOR: It struck some of the gas stations, patrol oils, oil, oil, wells, water stations, electricity stations, like people stayed with electricity for about 20 days.

Turkey says it's establishing a “buffer zone” between its southern border and the Kurds in northern Syria. The zone is in Syria and the Kurdish military is no match.

TRANSLATOR: It’s like fighting a lion with a spoon. What are we going to do? There's nothing to be done. Like, like, we're going to surrender, to be honest, we can't fight. Like, who are we fighting? We're fighting drones.

A Free Burma Rangers cameraman was among those killed by Turkish airstrikes in 2019.

So. On that day, Hawler was talking with a Syrian woman in a city controlled, in some sections, by the SDF. The Assad regime, which was allied with Russia and Iran, controlled the other sections of the city. Her husband and children had been killed by Turkish bombs. The Kurds in northeastern Syria were at war with the Assad regime and Turkey. Again, the U.S. is allied with Turkey and the Kurds, who are fighting each other.

But who was allied with this woman?

We drove through dozens of checkpoints in Syria, and all of them flew at least one flag. But one checkpoint flew an SDF flag with a flag of the Assad regime!? The SDF and the Assad regime were at war but apparently not in that hut. Another checkpoint near the Euphrates had opted for an “all of the above” approach. It flew an SDF flag, an Assad’s flag, a Turkish flag, and a Russian flag. A former American military commander just looked at me and said, “It’s Syria. Nothing makes sense here.”

Hawler hugged the woman and cried with her at the convenience store. Hawler also shared some of her own story including how she saw Jesus as her “new dad,” and how Jesus would be husband to this woman. Hawler and the team gave the mother one hundred U.S. dollars and some food.

FREE BURMA RANGER: Lets go, let’s go!

They also gave the boy a teddy bear. He never smiled. Then, we left.

FREE BURMA RANGER: Radio check!

The next day, we set out for a school near the town of Baghuz– ISIS’s last stronghold in Syria.

FREE BURMA RANGER: Ranger 1 up, we waiting for Dave.

We heard reports of a potential car bomb circling our location that morning. But the Iraqi driving our Land Cruiser didn’t seem particularly concerned.

FREE BURMA RANGER: Just beware, watch out if you can see something tell me like a person with a gun or a vehicle moving weird, awkward. Like usually car bombs will be like this.

Once on the main road, we had several hours ahead of us. Forces allied with Iran, Assad, and the Russians were across the Euphrates River and in some places, on our side of the river. We also knew many in the area were still sympathetic with ISIS. The towns and roads ahead of us were ideal for an ambush. Eubank told the convoy over the radio:

DAVE EUBANK: All vehicles, all vehicles, Thank you Lord. So when you pass people smile and pray for them. Give them a big smile. It will make you less afraid and it will be good for them.

As we neared Baghuz, most of the women walking along the road were wearing full burkas with everything covered.

EUBANK: The most dangerous areas are ones we're coming to we get up to these little towns. So if we get lit up, keep smiling and keep moving.

A kid threw a rock at us but this was the exception. We passed hundreds, maybe thousands of kids over the course of the trip, and most of them would either wave or give the “V for Victory” sign.

EUBANK: You can see the Euphrates out your right window, this is a mighty Euphrates River. The other side is the regime, this side is mixed.

Most buildings and walls showed evidence of bombing, shrapnel, or small arms fire. Eubank told us the story of ISIS’s last stand in 2019. He was there.

EUBANK: A lot of this place was leveled during the fighting against ISIS, fell back, town by town on this axis, on this road

Here’s what happened: In the aftermath of the pro-democracy demonstrations in 2011, known as the Arab Spring, Assad cracked down on protestors in his country. Rebel groups armed themselves. They were supported by NATO and some other Arab governments in the region. Russia and Iran supported Assad, and a full-blown war erupted.

ISIS, also known as the Islamic State, saw an opportunity in the chaos. The Islamist terror group had been around since the early 2000s. Initially they were a branch of al-Qaeda. In 2014, ISIS declared itself a worldwide caliphate and jihadists from all over the world traveled to Syria to join. Audio from PBS.

ANNOUNCER: From the pulpit, Baghdadi finally fulfilled Zarqawi's dream. He made it official, declaring himself the caliph: the ruler of the global caliphate.

Soon, ISIS had seized most of northeast Syria and western Iraq. Some reports say twelve million people lived under its totalitarian Islamist rule. We described this briefly in our last episode. That’s why Hawler, her mom and sister fled Syria for Iraq.

A U.S.-led coalition soon joined with SDF forces to take on ISIS. By 2017, the coalition had pushed ISIS out of Iraq and retaken the Syrian city of Raqqa. But ISIS hung on to strips of territory throughout Syria.

By 2019, Coalition forces had cornered the last ISIS fighters against the Euphrates and the Iraqi border outside a town called Baghuz. That’s where we were going.

EUBANK: Those cliffs, you can see sometimes, so this was the last stronghold of ISIS where ISIS from fifty seven countries assembled

As the battle progressed, the SDF and Coalition forces realized that there were a lot of civilians among the ISIS fighters. They took an incremental approach to minimize civilian casualties. They’d launch assaults and then pause to allow surrendering militants, hostages, and families to evacuate.

EUBANK: … and while we were there there was about 35,000 that eventually came out. Thousands more were killed

On March 23rd, 2019, it was over. Officially, ISIS had no more territory. But ISIS still had influence in Baghuz.

EUBANK: Most of the people here are ISIS or ISIS sympathizers to this day so anyway come in Jesus name and hope to be helpful, the school will be up here on the left.

Several SDF soldiers guarded the front gate while the team pulled into a walled compound with several buildings inside. We could see the cliffs Dave was talking about. There, in the field below them, tens of thousands of ISIS fighters made their last stand, and died.

Five or six hundred kids were already here with more pouring in through the gate. I went to a roof where I could see more kids walking or waddling toward the compound from both directions. Several dozen women in burqas stood along the edge of the crowd. Eubank’s introduction included an apology.

EUBANK: I am an American. We are your guest. I want to say I'm sorry for anything wrong we have, my country has done. We are just people.

He believes American bombs killed many of these kids' relatives during that last battle in 2019.

EUBANK: This is the last stronghold of ISIS. Every kid here has a parent, a relative or a friend who was killed in these attacks. Most of them supported ISIS, if not all, and probably most still do. I don't know. But I know that we've been welcomed here. We promised to put a playground in last year, thank God and the SDF to help us do it, we did it.

The kids looked delighted when a big American Marine picked up a child in each hand …

FREE BURMA RANGER: I’m gonna show you how to work out with a friend.

… and lifted them towards the sky.

The Marine had a tattoo of an American flag on one arm and a tattoo of a burning mosque on the other arm. He hated Muslims until he met Jesus. But that’s another story.

EUBANK: God bless you in Jesus name.

Hawler assumed her usual role as translator.

Later that night, she told me some people had advised her not to mention Jesus to the crowd of Muslims.

SHEIKHE: Some of the friends they said, Hey, don't say that. They are really strong Islamic. Translate, just say God, don't say Jesus. And I said no, sorry. This is the reason I came to Syria. Yeah, and after then I checked all the classes and all the rooms you know, this is not from us. This is from Jesus. And this is God's plan.

Our accommodations that night were an abandoned barracks building in a bombed-out oil field. The field had apparently been overrun by ISIS, and then re-taken by the SDF– who now used the field as a base. We lugged our packs up a flight of stairs and set up on the floor. It looked like someone had mopped or at least stirred the floors for us. Eubank prayed before we went to bed.

EUBANK: Well, let's pray, Lord, thanks for all your gifts. And please lead us in this. Thank, first of all, thank you for getting us to Baghuz and good program the playground in and real love and ability to do something and see thanks. Bless that sheik his family. Guide us protect us tonight. Please guide us tomorrow, the training your name, Amen.

It was just after 2 a.m. John, a Free Burma Ranger from Colorado, sat up in his sleeping bag.

SOUND: [Explosions]

Around ten explosions about a second apart. And then they stopped. People started coming out of their rooms to investigate.

FREE BURMA RANGER: All clear.

John was in shorts and crocs, with a scraggly, graying beard. For his safety, I won’t mention his last name. Even before the explosions, the building had no power, so people were using phone flashlights and headlamps.

FREE BURMA RANGER: Looks like it hit right here, bro.

A small group congregated at the end of the second story hallway. We peered out an open door at the clouds of dust that hung in the air.

FREE BURMA RANGER: You can see there's smoke coming from behind the base so it probably hit the base.

The stairs below were gone, so people were careful not to get too close.

AMERICAN PASTOR: And then the closest one hit just on the other side of the road there.

An American military vet gave his assessment.

FREE BURMA RANGER: No, uh, no casualties. Somewhere between six and 10 rockets landing very close but just outside the perimeter.

No one knew if the SDF had casualties. The air was completely still again. Then.

SOUND: [Explosion]

JOHN: Here it comes again.

We realized it wasn’t over.

FREE BURMA RANGER: Another one.

OK guys, out, everyone out, out. Go out.

We made our way toward the dim yellow light coming in from the open door at the other end of the hall.

Outside, the stars were bright. The group congregated around Eubank.

EUBANK: The best place is low, the best place is a hole, the better place is a bunker in a hole. The buildings aren’t good if you have a direct hit. They’re not bad if it’s far away.

FREE BURMA RANGER: The best place is America. Direct hit they collapse.

EUBANK: Yeah a direct hit and you’re blown to pieces if you’re outside the building. (laughs) So it’s hard to know.

No one knew where the rockets had come from. The closest hit one hundred yards from our room.

EUBANK: The Euphrates river is right over there. It’s closer. If they’re shooting from Iran it’s closer than from Iraq.

By “Iran,” he meant, from southern Syria where there were Iranian troops friendly with the Assad regime.

SHEIKHE: He say they just got information they will strike 40 rockets. Forty. Four zero.

Nobody liked the sound of that. The team turned to Eubank.

EUBANK: I think you can, I don’t think it matters.

FREE BURMA RANGER: Go inside? What do you want us to do?

EUBANK: Well, Lord guide us. Is there any low ground by that wall?

The majority of the Rangers moved their sleeping bags, blankets, and gear next to a large berm. A number of SDF soldiers were also sheltering there.

EUBANK: Oh Yeah.

FREE BURMA RANGER: What is that?

EUBANK: I don’t know, hope it’s ours. It’s a drone.

I looked for John but he’d disappeared. I found him in the passenger seat of an armored Land Cruiser. He’d already leaned his seat back and closed his eyes. He cleared the driver’s seat for me.

JOHN: You got space to go ahead and move that back.

WELDE: Do I? That’s great. That’s phenomenal.

EUBANK: All Rangers all Rangers, we're along the wall in the encampment and the low ground that's where most of us are. And rally point will be the wall under any of these little bunker things if someone gets wounded please let us know.

JOHN: All of our medical stuff, we have an IFAC right here on the back.

He seemed calm.

JOHN: The only thing that kept going through my head is [SINGING] And I will lift my voice to worship you my king. And I will find my strength in the shadow of your wings.

Who sings in a foxhole?

JOHN: I’m telling you, man, that guy from Third Day, listened to the Lord and put it down on paper and sang it out.

I liked John as soon as I met him. I wrote in my journal my initial impressions. “An extremely joyful person who very much wears his heart on his sleeve.”

JOHN: Every breath we take is ordained by the Lord. We walk around in sacks full of blood, we nick ourselves on something and get an arterial blade we're dead.

At some point in time, I hate to break it to us, but like, we're gonna die. And we're gonna meet God.

He told me you can have your doctrine down pat but if Jesus didn't live in your heart you're going to be afraid.

JOHN: You are! And like, I'm not afraid today, because you know what? I did, Lord, I went, and I did something that I thought you would want me to do today. So if I died today, I know I can say, I believed that my sins were covered by the death of your son. And I went and I told people about it, like you told me to.

SDF Soldiers occasionally walk past us in the moonlight. I remembered John had left his wife back in Iraq. I met her there before we crossed into Syria.

WELDE: So how do you think your wife will react to this?

JOHN: My wife is not scared of anything, dude.

They met at a Messianic Jewish church in Colorado in 2018. A year later, he asked her out in muck boots and a cutoff flannel shirt.

On their first date, John felt that he was supposed to tell her everything. His mom’s mental illness. The abusive stepdad who was sent to prison. His own criminal history beginning at age 19. How an injury had ended his pro hockey aspirations doctors prescribed painkillers, and he went way past painkillers. Sold office supplies by day, meth by night. He also began drinking. He spiraled for ten years, eventually coming to the point where he said could feel his organs shutting down. He believed he’d die soon.

JOHN: I knew I wanted a relationship with God one way or another. I just didn't believe it. I just could not get myself to believe it. It was like so dumb to me.

He was sitting alone in his apartment the night of June 2nd, 2017.

JOHN: So that’s why he showed me himself. I heard a voice for five hours, dude, that was not, there was no person there.

John says he wasn’t high or on drugs. The voice said, “There is one God, and Yeshua is his name.”

The next morning, John quit drinking. No withdrawal symptoms this time. He knocked on the door of a fellow drug dealer who’d double-crossed him. Instead of killing him he forgave him.

John went to work doing construction. Lived in a tent for a year. Got sober. And eventually he met Emily and they married in 2021. She came with him as far as Iraq, and was waiting for him there. Four months pregnant with their second child.

Part of me did wonder, “Dude–what are you doing here?” His family is beautiful.

JOHN: A dude will die. He'll lay his life down for his country or whatever else, but like, will he lay his son's life down? No, He won't

But that’s what God did, he said. How, when you’re sad or in pain, God understands. God says,

JOHN: I was there. I love you. And I'm with you.

We’d been talking for almost two hours. We could just see first light on the horizon in front of us.

JOHN: It makes me happy to see

SOUND: [Explosion]

JOHN: Alright, that's bombs.

John started praying again.

JOHN: Thank you, Lord, we love you. And if this is it, this is it. But if it's not we will praise your name until it happens. Thank you in Jesus name. Amen.

SOUND: [Explosion]

Still no alarms.

JOHN: My hope is in you, show me your ways. Guide me in truth, for all my days. My hope is in you.

SOUND: [Explosion]

John pulled out his phone and began recording a video for his wife.

JOHN: You're such a good woman. You're such a good mother and such a good wife I'm so grateful to have known you, for the times that we’ve had. I'm so grateful to call you mine. God be with you.

FREE BURMAN RANGER: A few more impacts over on the American side, everybody alright?

JOHN: Yeah, we are good. That's our radio interrupted live video, but I love you sons. I love you. I love you. Love you. Thank you, Jesus.

FREE BURMA RANGER: We’re ok over here.

He also asked me, that, if I made it out and he didn’t, to find his son.

JOHN: You make it out of here and I don't. The one thing I would ask of you is to tell my son when he's old enough, and find him, that I loved him so much. But I had to listen to God's voice and that it's okay.

Hawler, John, Eubank and the team spent two more weeks in Syria before turning back toward the Iraqi border.

It was a rainy, gray day, and it felt so good to be headed home. Back to Iraq, and from there, back to the US.

What didn’t feel great was leaving our new friends in Syria. One of them cried when we said goodbye at the border.

We were leaving the bombings behind. They couldn’t. Almost every. place. we. visited. had been bombed either days or weeks before we arrived or was bombed after we left.

John noted that being in a convoy is like following Jesus.

JOHN: It’s just like today, man, we're just driving in a convoy. We don't have to lead it. We don't have to back it up. Just follow the leader. He's our leader.

The day before John boarded a plane back to the U.S., he shared a text he’d received from a friend. John got this in Raqqa– the former heart of the ISIS caliphate. The Free Burma Rangers were circled around a large table in an Iraqi safehouse.

JOHN: You are never alone. As you reach out and spreads God's Word to those in need, remember the words of Matthew, 25:40, the King will reply, Truly. I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

SILLARS: Nobody really knows what’s in store for Syria. HTS leader Abu Mohammad al-Julani has been trying to re-invent himself. The former senior member of both ISIS and al-Qaeda now goes by Ahmad al-Sharaa. He’s traded in his machine guns and revolutionary garb for western-style suits. The Biden administration said last month it will not pursue a $10 million reward it had offered for al-Sharaa’s capture. He told a team of U.S. diplomats who went to Damascus that he was committed to renouncing terrorism.

Also, al-Sharaa told the BBC in December that HTS is Islamic, yes, but nationalist and tolerant of Syria’s sects and minorities.

AL-SHARAA: The Srian population has lived together for 1000s of years. We're going to discuss all of it. We're going to have dialog and make sure everyone is represented. The old regime always played on sectarian divisions, but we won't. We were welcomed in all the big cities by all the sects. I think the revolution can contain everybody.

But many are skeptical, and HTS tolerance may not last long. Martin Parsons is the president and CEO of the Lindisfarne Centre for the Study of Christian Persecution. He told WORLD that the terrorist groups who took over from Assad have Western governments to seduce. And they want the aid packages those governments could provide. But once these groups solidify their grip on the country, conditions will likely start to change. It could end up a lot like Afghanistan. “We're not going to see an immediate massacre of Christians,” Parsons said, “but we are going to see that tightening noose.”

In a recent interview with WORLD, Eubank said Christians are able to practice their faith for the time being in parts of western Syria under the control of HTS.

But Christians are continuing to suffer violence and persecution elsewhere in the country. After Assad’s fall, the Turkey-backed Syrian National Army advanced into areas held by the SDF. Militants have killed people on the streets, in hospitals, and children on playgrounds.

EUBANK: One of the cities had one Christian that we know of, and he said, If they catch me, they will kill me. And he said, out in the street, he showed me pictures of blood on the, literally blood on the streets where the Syrian national armies are slaughtering people.

Militants have killed people in the streets, in hospitals, and children on playgrounds.

According to the Associated Press, SDF forces recently launched a counter-offensive against the Syrian National Army to take those areas back.

Some Christians, meanwhile have fled to eastern Syria, near the border with Iraq, Eubank said. That’s where Caleb and the Free Burma Rangers were. It’s the last safe place in the country for Christians. For now.

EUBANK: That's kind of all that's left for Christians now, and they're very afraid if, if the US doesn't intervene and slow and stop the Turks, the Turkish supported Syrian National Army will come in and slaughter everybody.

Caleb Welde reported and wrote this episode, and I produced it. I’m Les Sillars.

Please don’t forget to rate and review us, and we’d love to hear from you when you get a chance. editor@wng.org

Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next time.

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