Culture Friday: Unraveling the secular narrative

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: It’s Friday the 14th of June, 2024.

Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Myrna Brown.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher.

It’s time for Culture Friday, and joining us now is John Stonestreet. He’s president of the Colson Center and host of the Breakpoint podcast.

Morning, John!

JOHN STONESTREET: Yes, good morning.

EICHER: I want to talk with you about Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito and the latest attempt to scandalize him. Gonzo journalist Lauren Windsor made a surreptitious recording of conversations with Justice Justice Alito and his wife, and she portrayed them as a couple of Christian nationalists or something, who were spoiling for an opportunity to impose some kind of moral code on our happy and well functioning democracy. Miss Windsor attended a Supreme Court Historical Society function. She posed as a religious Catholic. She chatted up both of the Alitos, and so let's listen to a little bit of the recording that she posted to X.

It'll begin with Justice Alito the audio is not great, but it was, as we said, a surreptitious recording.

JUSTICE ALITO: One side or the other is going to win. I don’t know, I mean, there can be a way living together peacefully, but it’s difficult, you know. Because there are differences on fundamental things that really can’t be compromised, really can’t be compromised. So, it’s not like we’re going to split the difference.

LAUREN WINDSOR: And that’s what I’m saying. I think that the solution really is, like, winning the moral argument. Like, people in this country who believe in God have got to keep fighting for that, to return our country to a place of godliness.

JUSTICE ALITO: Oh, I agree with you. I agree with you.

She got him to agree to try to win a moral argument. Boy, you know, I hate to burst her bubble, but I’m not sure I see what the story is. She’s getting lots of traction on the internet, and MSNBC. I didn't know about this until I read about it in The New York Times —breathlessly. Maybe the story is that some people think there needs to be a religious test for office, and if you test positive, you're not fit. John, what do you think the story is, if there's anything at all?

STONESTREET: I don't think there's a story here at all, except from a secular perspective that thinks that an extreme secular perspective, not just any secular perspective, but one that thinks it's beyond the pale for religious people to be religious. But of course, you know, newsflash, Catholics are Catholic. I know there's questions about, you know how I probably shouldn't say this – I was going to make a joke about how Catholic this pope is, but we know that Samuel Alito is, and he believes this.

Secondly, everybody on MSNBC, to a greater degree, thinks that there is a kind of winner take all on some of these issues, that there's really not room for coexistence between those who think the, for example, pre-born are humans made in the image of God and worthy of life, and those that see them as a clump of cells. And I don't think science has been ambiguous about this. I don't think theology is ambiguous about this, and I don't think anybody that takes either side seriously is ambiguous about this. You can't say that it's both right to kill and not right to kill at the same time in the same place. That's kind of a moral violation of the law of non-contradiction. And both sides believe that, not just Alito.

So the whole thing about winning and how scandalous it would be that he would say something like this. I mean, it really isn't a headline in any world. I mean, I mean, we'll get it. We hear this over and over and over, that it's just intolerable that anyone would actually take their faith seriously and apply it, you know, to America, as if that's the greatest, you know, evil that could happen.

But you know, that's just because people that are trapped in secularism often are unaware that they, too, have a worldview, and they're often unaware that that worldview is just as religious in the sense that it begins with a belief in what is ultimate reality, and then goes to a belief about what is true about the human person, and then goes to a belief about what is right and wrong, and also what the end of history is. And it's a competing worldview, but then they don't often realize that.

EICHER: Right. Well, John, you know, we had another one of those moments in sports journalism. We had a reporter covering the NBA Finals. He was looking to get a racial angle, because in the finals, with Game 4 tonight, you know, noting that both of the coaches competing with one another are black, and Coach Joe Mazzulla, who happens to be a serious Catholic, was not willing to go along. Just in case you didn't hear the exchange, let's have a listen in.

VINCE GOODWILL: Hey Joe, Vince Goodwill, Yahoo Sports. For the first time since 1975, this is the NBA Finals where you have two black head coaches. Given the plight sometimes with black coaches in the NBA, do you think is a significant moment. How do you view this, or do you not see it at all?

JOE MAZZULA: I wonder how many of those have been Christian coaches.

Okay, listen carefully. You hear that? You may mistake that for silence. That's not silence. That's eight seconds of a narrative completely unraveling.

You know, one would think that a journalist would say, you know, that's an interesting angle. Hadn't thought about that. Maybe we should call around the league and find out, or something like that. Or, you know, perhaps just say what they were thinking, rather than sit there and say nothing, something along the lines of, you know, why would religion matter more than ethnicity would.

What would you have asked, John, if you were sitting there as a sports reporter?

STONESTREET: I mean, I have lots of basketball related questions, and I'm apparently not nearly as clever as Joe Mazzulla is. I have loved this. This isn't even, by the way, my favorite response of his in one of these press conferences, because he was asked earlier in the year about the royal family visiting one of the games. Did you see that clip? And he said, What do you mean, Mary, mother, Mary, Joseph and Jesus? And it was like, you know it was, I guess it was, you know, William and Megan or, sorry, which one was it? It was the, I should know this.

EICHER: It was Harry.

STONESTREET: Harry. There we go. Harry and Meghan and it I just thought that was great. He is hilarious, first of all, and I love the just the levity and the confidence that he exudes, you know, in his faith, you know, you hear these answers that just basically change the perspective. You said it “unravels the narrative.” I think that's a legitimate way to say it as well, because he's just thinking about these questions. And he's really good at his job, you know, he he really is a spectacular coach, taking a lot of young talent and delivering and molding and meshing it with some older talent, and then delivering a product that's pretty impressive. So I just love that.

I just love when I see that in areas that are unexpected. I love that there has been a shift in sports and in coaching at this high level. In my mind, from kind of the Bobby Knight approach of the 70s, maybe 80s, and even, you know, other but to this kind of, you know, Dabo, you know, the Clemson football coach, or, you know, the Virginia University of Virginia basketball coach is another example of this. And certainly the coaches at Baylor University who are all doing this at a really, really high level, and then just kind of basically saying, Oh, yeah. And this, this is, you know, what I believe and and just doing it in a way that I think is making these reporters better at their job.

So, you know, I don't know what I would have asked, but I hope I would have asked the same thing, because I want these same clever answers to get out in the public square. So maybe I would try to throw these softballs and let them knock him out of the park. It's just really fascinating.

BROWN: Let's stay with that unraveling the narrative theme there, because this month is, there's certainly a narrative around the month of June, but Fidelity Month logos are are popping up on social media, and the goal is to unite people of different faith and cultural backgrounds who wish to reaffirm or rededicate themselves to fidelity, to God, our spouses, and families, countries and communities, to Make America Faithful Again. John, it's certainly noble, but in this cultural moment, is it enough?

STONESTREET: Well, no, we always require the help of the Lord and the Holy Spirit. But I love this idea. I've loved this idea since last year when Professor Robert George at Princeton first proposed it. I think it's a way of communicating what's really important, and also not just saying pride is bad, which, by the way, pride is bad, there's never been an example in history of pride being good, until this movement adopts it and pushes it forward.

But faithfulness, man, that is the source of the great stories of history, the great battles that have been won, the beauty of friendships and family that we experience, the beauty of lifelong married love and a spouse walking another one all the way up to their last breath, a parent dealing with a problem child but not giving up. I mean, I mean, just think of the beauty of that. Fidelity is beautiful, and this is what is so compelling about this. And look, I've seen more this year than last year, of fidelity, so praise God.

You know, what else? I've seen less pride this year than last year. Now, for some reason, even though Target backed down after getting, you know, smacked around, and the bottom line for promoting Satanism last year, Walmart decided to double down on this. This makes no sense to me. But you know what? Less since we were talking about professional sports, less professional sports teams are jumping in on this, and maybe we should thank those Russian hockey players that had the courage at the very beginning to say no, you know, but I like the fact that we say no, but we also say yes, and that, of course, is the truth of the Christian worldview, that whenever Christians say no to the world, it's because they're pointing to something better. Chuck Colson, in his last speech, said Christians don't impose a way. They propose a better way. And I think that is what Robbie George, Professor George, has done in this. I just, I love it. It's on my social media, even though I'm not, but that is, and I think it's something that we can all get behind. So go to fidelitymonth.com I'm not getting paid to promote this. I just think this is a great idea.

BROWN: Well, I can't let you two go without saying, Happy Father's Day? Father's Day is on Sunday. But also, there's a---you're welcome---there's a question around this.

So here's a dad being a dad. I saw this video. It's gotten 14 million views. Here's this kid. He's squealing. He's screaming at the top of his lungs, sitting in a barber's chair being recorded as his dad shaves off his long locks, dreadlocks.

This is not just a haircut. This is the dad punishing the son because the son bullied another kid at school that has cancer. Lots of opinions about this. You know, this is humiliating, this is bullying. And then others say, well, the hair will grow back, the lessons like this will last a lifetime.

So we know how important it is to have a father present in the home. I just wonder, though, John, are debates like this in the public square helpful to anyone? Also, should this be on social media?

STONESTREET: Oh, I mean, there's so many things on social media that shouldn't. I'm a huge fan of this one. And you know, the fundamental failure of our age is adults not willing to do hard things on behalf of children.

So look, I, you know, I didn't make the call to parent. I don't know the backstory of what this young man did, or how far down the line he is in this dehumanizing behavior. But I've just, even in the last month, dealt with a group of adults not willing to do hard things for the sake of kids. So at this point, I'm probably biased, but high five to this dad, and high five to all dads, because you know what? You just said, we know how important it is to have a father present in the home. We do, but the rest of the world doesn't or is rejecting what they know is probably more accurate.

There's nothing more important than kids grow up in a home with married mom and dad, and to somehow act like that doesn't matter. To somehow act like, you know, tethering this kid's well-being to his own feelings is more important than to what's true and right, and no one can do that better than a dad. Man, fist bump, high five. Elbow bump. I'm across the board in support of this dad.

EICHER: Hey, across the board, all that to you. Happy Father's Day to you, John. John Stonestreet, President of the Colson Center and Host of the Breakpoint Podcast. Great to have you. Thanks!

STONESTREET: Happy Father's Day to you and thank you both!

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