Culture Friday: Redemption still speaks

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NICK EICHER, HOST: Joining us now, John Stonestreet, the President of the Colson Center and host of the Breakpoint Podcast. John, good morning.

JOHN STONESTREET: Good morning.

EICHER: Alright John, so you heard Emma’s reporting on this alternative halftime show—organized, deliberate counter-programming meant to offer something very different from what the NFL has been serving up of late. 

So what do you think it says about the cultural moment when the Super Bowl halftime show now comes with a parallel alternative?

STONESTREET: I think it’s overdue. I think we’ve needed some replacement for some of these lousy halftime shows for a long time, particularly the ones that just basically rely on sexual exploitation and are not family-friendly, you know, whatsoever.

I think it’s interesting that we’re getting it this year in a number of ways. I think a lot of it has to do with people just really aren’t that amazed by the artist known as Bad Bunny. The name alone is enough for me to never listen to him, and I have not.

But of course, the politically charged aspect of his career is, I think, part of it. I think there’s plenty of history of artists that are really, really good and talented that still attract an audience from both sides of the political aisle. He’s not one of them. Kind of underwhelming, really, is probably part of it.

I think the positioning that Turning Point USA is in—and has there ever been an entity kind of in a position to do something opposite of this? and the answer is no.

At the same time, look, you’ve got to think it’s a little bit ironic that the kid-friendly or family-friendly alternative to the halftime show is featuring Kid Rock, never really been known as someone with clean language and buttoned-up lyrics and all that sort of stuff.

And I just think it’s interesting that on political grounds, you have one group that, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago found him to be a pretty offensive artist, now find him to be a great American. And on the other hand, you know, you have people that really loved his music and thought he was actually a really interesting talent.

I have a friend and former student who’s a big music guy, who, I remember hearing about Kid Rock back in the day, and it was kind of like, "it’s so unusual, because it’s kind of this redneck guy crossing genres, and he’s actually really musically talented, and we really liked him." And now, in the wake of this announcement, he posts about how bad of an artist he is.

So, I don’t think we’re objective music critics, I guess, is what we should all admit about ourselves. And this event is a mirror to hold up in front of us, and maybe we can be a little more honest with ourselves about how politically driven we really are.

EICHER: Yeah, I think it was the TV host Laura Ingraham some years back who came up with that phrase “shut up and sing.” A little impolite, sure, but I admit I’ve grown weary of hearing the ill-informed political views of celebrity performers. I don’t want to know what my favorite singer thinks about immigration. I just don't want to hear it. 

STONESTREET: I’m more and more in the shut-up-and-sing school than I’ve ever been.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Alright, come on now! Yet, John, coming out of the Grammys we heard plenty of political hot takes, but we also heard something very different. A tight, respectful testimony from the artist Jelly Roll—a.k.a. Jason DeFord. 

He describes his faith as a backslider’s journey marked by belief in Christ, shaped by addiction, incarceration, and recovery. He’s said his music and his story are a kind of ministry—focused on redemption and hope for people who feel broken. Let’s hear him.

JELLYROLL: I know they’re going to try to kick me off here, so just let me try to get this out. First of all, Jesus, I hear you, and I’m listening, Lord, I am listening, Lord. There was a time in my life, y’all, that I was I was broken. That’s why I wrote this album. I didn’t think I had a chance, y’all. There was days that I thought the darkest things--I was a horrible human. There was a moment in my life that all I had was a Bible this big, and a radio the same size, and a six by eight foot cell, and I believed that those two things could change my life. I believed that music had the power to change my life, and God had the power to change my life. And I want to tell y’all right now, Jesus is for everybody! Jesus is not owned by one political party. Jesus is not owned by no music label. Jesus is Jesus, and anybody can have a relationship with him. I love you, Lord!

Did you hear that, John?

STONESTREET: I just heard a recording of it, and I know the Jelly Roll story, and I think that’s what’s so compelling here. Musically, there’s a lot of talent and incredible voice, he’s very interesting in the lyrics he produces. But his story makes it all the more interesting.

I think that for a lot of art, there’s a story behind it. There’s an artist behind it with a story. And his is so really absolutely compelling in so many ways.

He also seems like someone whose faith is getting more serious, not less serious—not getting more watered down, but actually becoming more and more committed in both his courage and what he’s willing to say out loud. 

And it’s an amazing thing when you see a story of redemption—redemption is a compelling story to all of us. I think it’s more than just a one-off coincidence when it’s compelling to us. It’s because redemption is really the story of the world. It’s the story we need to define life itself if there really going to be anything substantial to hope that we all need to have and cling on to.

So yeah, it’s the power of story.

And I think it also, by the way, says something about a Christian worldview of communication, whereas a postmodern view really sees communication as just in the eye of the beholder—or the hearer, or the viewer, or the listener. It's the beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder framing, so really, it doesn’t matter what the author intends. It only matters what we get out of the lyrics or the experience we have interpretively in the moment.

And I think if the artist really, sincerely didn’t matter—if all that matters is what we feel or think in interaction with the product—then why do these stories compel us so much?

So I think there’s something apologetic here that points to what is true and real about the universe, and a story like this one.

BROWN: Well John, I had the opportunity to meet a young woman who detransitioned after medical interventions as a teenager. We recorded an interview that aired yesterday … and hearing her describe how quickly she was rushed from confusion, to permanent surgery, it was sobering—and it was heartbreaking.

But this comes on the heels of that big jury award: two million dollars to another young woman, finding doctors liable for malpractice.

Now, we have the nation’s leading plastic surgeons’ association urging that destructive surgeries be deferred to adulthood … and the AMA also tentatively agreeing. Things are moving fast!

STONESTREET: It’s moving really fast. This case is a landmark, it's a moment. This story definitely seems to be trending in a much better direction than it was trending three years ago. There does seem to be incredible momentum.

A big part of it is what this story represents, and I think there's a number of things that came to light. 

Even though, to be clear, this jury did not issue a verdict on the efficacy of transgender “treatments,” basically what they did was point out a couple things.

Number one is, this woman’s story matters. It wasn’t that long ago that we were told detransitioners didn’t really exist, and now we’re seeing that not only do they exist, there’s an awful lot of them and there is lawsuit after lawsuit lining up. And the amount of the award from the jury—two million dollars—says a lot about just how real these detransitioners are.

The second thing that was at the core of this trial and I think is behind the malpractice, is just how many mental-health comorbidities young women suffer with these days, and how they have been ignored and actually dismissed and left untreated. And that is not good for the victim.

The third is the suicide myth. We’ve talked about that here before. That parents of these minors—who often feel silly, who often feel intimidated, who almost always want what’s best for their kid—were lied to. They were told the suicide myth. They were threatened: “Would you rather have a live son or a dead daughter?” And the manipulation is coming to a head.

People are calling that out. And all three of those factors were front and center in this case and it led to the accusations and now the conviction on malpractice.

So it’s the first of what will be many, I think, I pray.

I mean, listen, I hope all these people go to jail. I hope all these medical institutions that did this are bankrupted because of their evil foolishness.

And you know, when we’re done with the hospitals and the medical professionals, then let’s go to the school boards and the superintendents and the school counselors. Because there are a whole lot of those folks too who are just as guilty of those three key things: rushing people to medically irreversible treatments, ignoring comorbidities, and lying to parents.

Those three things are consistent features of this story. It’s where all the cultural momentum came from in the bad way. And calling them out and pointing out that they are the lies that they are is the reason we’ve gotten this cultural momentum reversed.

And a whole lot of people need to go to jail.

EICHER: Well hey John, before we go—Os Guinness, a friend of yours, is being honored with the Colson Center’s Wilberforce Award for advancing truth and freedom of conscience, and that's coming here in a few months. 

But John, when you think about the reasons for choosing Os Guinness for an award like this, what does it say about the moment we’re in right now and the kind of leadership that a moment like this calls for?

STONESTREET: Well, many people forget that William Wilberforce was not only a great social reformer who had been put in Parliament, but he was a great thought leader. He was able to create networks, coalitions, and articulate ideas that were built on a Christian worldview that would have direct impact on the world around him.

He was a central example of what it means to have a personal faith that is not private, but public in terms of living out the ramifications of the truth claims that Christianity makes about who God is, about morality, and about what gives us human dignity and value.

And I don’t know another person whose ideas have been more relevant and more widely available in our lifetimes on the things that matter the most than Os Guinness.

I often call him a Gandalf of our world because I think he is.

But I think at just the right time and just the right place, God put this man here and helped us think about things like human dignity, the definition of freedom, and like the public implications of our faith, and why truth matters, and also how to think historically so we’re not captive to the chronological snobbery C.S. Lewis talks about.

All of these things are essential if we’re going to protect things like religious freedom and if we’re going to actually hold together this project of the Western world, and continue to proclaim the gospel and the good news while also putting feet to the words we say as Christians.

He’s championed all those ideas. 

And I think especially about religious freedom. The greatest enemy of freedom, Os has taught us, is not from without—it’s from within. It's when we don’t understand freedom, we don't understand the scope of it. When we allow our faith to be reduced down to the privatized corners of our world, then religious freedom becomes meaningless.

And that’s what we have, right? We have a lot of people trying to pat us on the head, saying "oh, you have religious freedom," when what they is merely just the freedom to believe whatever we want in our own heads and hearts.

But the good that Christianity and religious truth brings to the world is something no other framework, no other religious or non-religious system, brings.

And so we have an important, I think, responsibility to steward these things and protect these things, especially at a cultural moment where things are at such great risk.

We not only need to be active, we need to think well. And we not only need to think well, we need to act.

And I think Os is a wonderful example of that, like William Wilberforce himself was.

BROWN: John Stonestreet is president of the Colson Center and host of the Breakpoint podcast. Thanks, John.

STONESTREET: Thank you both.

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