Culture Friday: Caitlyn Jenner’s change of tune

NICK EICHER, HOST: It’s the 21st day of April 2023.

Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Nick Eicher.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown. It’s Culture Friday.

Joining us now is Katie McCoy. She’s director of women’s ministry at Texas Baptists. Her PhD is in Systematic Theology. Always good to have you. Good morning!

KATIE McCOY, GUEST: Good morning to you both.

BROWN: Katie, I want to ask you about a recent comment from Caitlyn Jenner, arguably the first really famous transgender person.

Now, he did legally change his name from Bruce to Caitlyn, even though I can barely bring myself to say it. In any event, he wrote, I have never claimed to be a biological woman. That would be factually incorrect. I am trans and biologically male. He’s been making the argument against biological boys or men in women’s sports.

Are we to consider him the new voice of reason? How do you respond?

McCOY: Well, I hope not, because while he may represent a more reasonable take on some of these transgender debates happening in our culture. It still is based on this premise that your biology can be disconnected from your gender identity, that they are not created to be in harmony and that you can live in a way that is outside of God's design for your identity as a male or a female. And so, Caitlyn Jenner I appreciate that he has not said that he identifies as female because of course that is illogical, you cannot change you no matter what surgery or hormone treatment you do, whether you are male or female. And that might seem very simple. However, even that linguistic detail is being challenged in our society today. Things like the concept of sex being binary is considered an oppressive bigoted concept. However, from what I understand, Caitlyn Jenner still identifies himself as a woman, meaning that it is possible to be a woman and yet have no biology of female. Really what Caitlyn Jenner is, is what previous generations would call a transvestite, someone who cross-dresses, and he happens to live at a time where our technology and surgical options allow him to present himself in a more characteristically feminine way. So no, this is not the middle. This is not somehow a reasonable halfway point because the truth is, gender is either binary or it's not. Sex is either binary or it's not. Biology matters for our gender identity, or it doesn't. There really is no middle ground. There is more than enough room as there should be among the people of God for compassion for every person who struggles with a lack of wholeness and harmony in their spirit. And there is every compassion for people who have tried to fix that lack of wholeness by the world's means, but what we cannot give up ground on are the facts and the truth and the facts and the truth are, you cannot change your gender, you cannot change your sex.

EICHER: Okay, I’m wading into largely unknown waters here. Mr. Beast, a huge YouTuber. I had no idea who he was until the story circulated that he’d donated money for cataract surgery and was criticized for it, and it was criticism so silly it’s not worth repeating. But now the big news about Mr. Beast is that one of his sidekicks who is a married father has decided to come out as transgender. So of course that wrecked the marriage, predictably. But will it also wreck the Mr. Beast show, which is, as I say, aimed at young children? The evidence so far is Mr. Beast is going along with it and keeping the guy on the show. So here’s another propaganda outlet potentially pushing trans ideology on kids. We’ve talked about this before with John Stonestreet and I wonder what your take is on this. John thinks people are going to come to their senses and reject this ideology. But it sure seems it’s on the march and it can’t be stopped. What’s your sense of it?

McCOY: It's a great question. Let me put a pin in that and come back to it, but first talk about something that is very sensitive. And especially for parents with young ears around you may want to keep this from them. There is a secret in trans culture that anytime you bring it up, it is met with more than a little pushback. The reality is that for biological females, oftentimes it is social contagion that will lead them to a trans identity. For biological males, however, you cannot talk about trans identity without talking about pornography. It is deeply linked to certain genres and sub genres of pornography, and this sidekick of this Mr. Beast internet personality, his name is Chris Tyson. And as you said, he came out as trans, wrecked his marriage. There's a whole subculture of women called trans widows, women who got married to men and they they are as though they are widowed because their husbands have essentially left them. They are no longer husbands and, and instead they demand women to be just fine with the fact that they're essentially going to live with and be married to another quote unquote woman. But Chris Tyson had his Twitter locked as I understand it, because he posted a tweet about being sexually aroused by Loli, L-o-l-i and Loli is a genre of sexual anime, a pornographic anime that features young girls and toddlers. But yes, this man Chris Tyson, frankly, he should probably be put on a predator list or a watch list of some sort. He's been posting this publicly. God knows what he says and does privately and he should have no access to children whatsoever. Again, what parents need to recognize, though, there are sub genres of pornography that are infecting the minds of young men, and it fetishizes sexual humiliation. And by doing that it is gaining inroads into the minds hearts and souls of men and convincing them that they too have sort of a fetishized feminization, there is something called Autogynophilia. That means love of oneself as a woman. And it can be an excitement of dressing as a woman or being aroused at the sight of oneself as a woman. If you remember that film, The Danish Girl, that that's what was depicted there, there's been some discussion as to whether Caitlyn Jenner belongs in that category. Certainly, Lea Thomas, when you do some digging, it's not this sudden trans identity, there's a link of Autogynophillia. And it is a very dark culture. And it involves also the humiliation or degradation of women as well. These things shouldn't surprise us. Because we live in a world where as we remember, the problem is not the internet. The problem is not laws. The problem is we wrestle against not flesh and blood but spiritual powers. And what does Satan hate, but God's image bearers? And so these things are matters for us to be aware of things for parents to ask their children about warn their children about. But let me come back to that question that you asked Nick.

EICHER: Right, right, and thank you for the warning there. I do want to go back to that question, and I’ll offer a counter-example where maybe the tide is turning. It seems that Democrats are all-in on culture issues, largely advocating for LGBTQ causes, and that many Republicans are running for the hills. They don’t want to talk about abortion, they don’t want to talk about trans-issues, with an exception. The governor of Florida, although not a candidate yet, seems like a candidate, but he’s very open on these issues. Calling Lia Thomas, whom you just mentioned, calling him a fraud. So to return to this, do you think the tide will turn, or is transgender ideology unstoppable?

McCOY: I think the answer is yes, it is going to get better and it is going to get worse. And here's why. First, the UK, Sweden and Finland are all countries that have been very progressive, about transgender therapies for minors, they are reversing course. Fascinating, they are taking a look at the research and saying this is not working. This is not helping children's mental health. The U.S., however, is going full speed ahead. And I think there's a reason for that. In our own cultural psyche, we tend to believe that all changes progress and all progress is good. So as Americans, we tend to latch on to these new fads as thinking this is all a matter of good progress that we should be supporting. But there are other issues in play, I think people are going to wake up and I think it's going to happen with an army of parents who are informed. And if your readers are looking for something to do, I'll throw this out there they need to go look at WPATH, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health and the new standards of care and things that our own presidential administration is saying that they will sign on to the standards of care of WPATH. And frankly, I think speaking of politicians, this should be a litmus test for every politician: Where do they stand on WPATH guidelines? we've got plenty of other litmus tests for our elected officials. And last time I checked, Nick, we were still paying the bills. And so we should be able to ask our representatives where they stand on these issues.

The tide is beginning to turn. We saw that in Virginia with the gubernatorial election of Glenn Youngkin. But here's what's going against us. We have a culture, where combined social media, corporate activism, and public school policy, you combine all of those things, and right now it's a runaway train. And part of why it's a runaway train is people are still too afraid to speak up. You saw this last week with Bud Light giving a can with the face on it of this Dylan Mulvaney. But there was so much backlash that they ended up piecing together a quick ad about America and horses. And you just saw they couldn't backtrack fast enough, because they were trying to fix their bottom line. What happened there? The consumer spoke. And so until corporations feel it where they hurt, and that's their bottom line, they're going to keep pushing this and the more they push it, the more social media pushes it, and the more public schools include gender indoctrination in their elementary school curriculum, we're going to see this continue to spread. So what do we need to do? We need every parent to be informed and dedicated not just to these big elections happening nationally, but local elections, local civil government is vital. I think we need a renaissance of Christian influence in civil government and it might be this issue that is the tipping point.

EICHER: Katie McCoy is director of women’s ministry at Texas Baptists. She holds a PhD in Systematic Theology from Southwestern Seminary, and she’s author of a book due out in June: To Be a Woman: The Confusion Over Female Identity and How Christians Can Respond. Thank you, Katie.

McCOY: Thanks for having me.

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