Culture Friday - A heavyweight cancel culture bout

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: It’s Friday, February 11th, 2022.

Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Myrna Brown.

NICK EICHER, HOST: And I’m Nick Eicher. Well, it’s Culture Friday. Let’s bring in John Stonestreet. He’s the president of the Colson Center and host of the Breakpoint podcast and he joins us now. Morning, John.

JOHN STONESTREET, GUEST: Good morning.

EICHER: I really thought we might be able to ignore the Joe Rogan controversy—the very famous podcaster—because when you file a story like this under 'cancel culture', an example of cancel culture at work, at first, it didn’t seem to have any legs to it, but this story has had staying power and I don’t think it’s over. What do you make of this?

STONESTREET: Well, obviously, it started when Joe Rogan had on a guest that gave an opinion about the vaccines and about COVID-19 that ran afoul of the only embraced acceptable narrative. And then, when Neil Young then wrote and said, Spotify, you've got to choose, it's either Joe Rogan, or it's me, which in my mind is kind of like, AC Green, calling the Lakers and saying, hey, it's either me or LeBron James, you know, somebody that's been retired for 20 years was pretty good dude. But you know, not Lebron James. And Spotify made their choice really clear at the beginning. You know, then a couple people who've kind of self appointed themselves to kind of keep watching all these things, posted clips and of language used by Joe Rogan, that's unacceptable language to be used in public in that context. I think there was there was context around it, it certainly wasn't used in any sort of racist way that I can see, unless I'm missing something. But of course, it just led to more and more and more and more circling of the wagons. I guess the thing that's been so interesting to me through this whole conversation is that this really is probably the most visible example we've seen of the battle between the quote unquote’ woke mob' and the power brokers. We just haven't really seen that this conversation or this fight happen at the heavyweight level, you know, there's been kind of welterweight bouts and lightweight bounce, but this is a heavyweight bout. The other thing that's been really interesting is Joe Rogan's response has been, I think, a model of humility and just saying, you know, look, I get it, I get where your concern is, I don't think this is cancelable. And here's why. And, you know, here's what I could have done differently. His response to the second, you know, round of the controversy having to do with the language used was, I think, was very, you know, very humble. I mean, he basically just, you know, said I was wrong, I, here's my intent, but, you know, I see now that it was a bad idea. Many people think that he didn't need to apologize for that. I think he did. And I think he did it well.

EICHER: Last week, we talked about the Canadian law banning conversion therapy and I should note on that subject that a small college town in Indiana, West Lafayette, just went through a related controversy. The city council there came very close to passing a local statute essentially doing the same thing, banning conversion therapy in a very overbroad way, but this week, this Monday night, the city backed down. Steve West, reporting for WORLD, has a very good story on this and we’ll link to it in the program transcript, but I want to read this particular passage to you—really interesting quote from a pastor who’d really become an activist on the issue, listen to this:

“I really believe this is ‘coming to a theater near you.”

Yeah, in other words, West Lafayette may have backed down, but it’s not over, and it’s almost certainly coming to your town. Do you think he’s right?

STONESTREET: It's coming to a theater near us if more people aren't courageous enough to just say no. And this is one of the ways that we have to do things differently. There's no question, you know, in this highly controversial, cultural moment on this highly controversial issue. In other words, as Christians, we've got to decide between the fear of God and the fear of man. As Christians, we've got to figure out what is an essential belief and whether it's a doctrinal belief or a moral belief in a Christian worldview, and this issue, by the way, touches on both a doctrinal belief, one about creation and who we are made in the image of God, as well as a moral belief in terms of what is the human behavior that best corresponds with the way the world works and especially for the good of children. We've got to decide that this is the line, it's here and no more. We've got to be clear on this. It reminds me of that document that Chuck Colson, Robbie George and Timothy George worked on called the Manhattan Declaration back in 2009. And how prescient it is, basically, not because they got it all right, or because you know, this document was comprehensive, but it was the first to really say, You know what, this is a matter, not only of Christian conviction, but of Christian faithfulness, like we can't fudge on this one. This has to be clear - our understanding of what it means to be human and how that relates to the LGBTQ issues. You know, the other thing too, I think it's worth mentioning is that, in addition to, you know, doctrinal beliefs and moral beliefs, there is care for victims. Christian witness requires us to do victim care. I think that's a missing part of this whole story. And those victims include not only the young people that have been confused in sexual orientation and gender identity issues, and want help, but also their parents. No one's talking about parents who've spent their whole lives raising a young man. And suddenly that young man rejecting not only everything that their parents taught, but who their parents told them they were. And their feelings. And I know enough moms, it's it's like a death in the family. It's a struggle. And their feelings aren't even considered. And I think what this city council did is so important, because it takes into account that there are victims here and to subvert the conversation, to prematurely make a decision on here's how the world is going to work now, even though it's different than the whole history of civilization up until this point, is irresponsible. And so good for them.

BROWN: John, I want to talk numbers now. First, on the effectiveness of the pro-life law in Texas. Our colleague Leah Savas reporting for WORLD pulled data from the Texas Health and Human Services Commission…total recorded abortions dropped by about 60 percent during the first month of the state’s heartbeat bill. Now, it’s possible some pregnant moms traveled outside the state, but the 60 percent figure is pretty significant.

But here’s another set of numbers from Daniel Darling, writing at WORLD Opinions. He cites a Lifeway Research study measuring the attitudes of men whose wives or girlfriends had an abortion.

Nearly half of the men advised their partners to abort—nearly half. About a third gave no advice, had nothing to say at all. Another figure from the survey: 51 percent of post-abortive men say they attend church regularly.

John, is there a hole in the pro-life movement and what can the church do about it?

STONESTREET: There was a remarkable line from Frederica Mathewes-Green in a documentary film series that Focus on the Family did several years ago, I had the privilege to be in it as well. It was called The Family Project. And Frederica Mathewes-Green had a line that stole the show in that film, in which she said so much relies on on whether the man realizes his God-designed place and all of this, she said, Because suddenly things like the financial status, things like beliefs, you know, religious affiliations, these things fade into the distance. And the most important thing in most of these situations is if the man, if the father says, I'm not in this with you, then that baby is at great risk. If the man, if the father says, I'm in this with you, suddenly that baby has another level of security and protection. In other words, it's almost like God created sex and marriage and procreation to be a package deal. And what's missing in I think so much of our church discipleship to get more specific is that inherent connection. In other words, we tell people abortion is wrong if we go that far, which many churches unfortunately do not, but we don't get to the “why”. We don't get to the this is what sex is for this is what male female relationships are for this is what family is for this is what husbands and wives and fathers and mothers are for. And you know, the “why” makes sense of the “what”. The “why” makes sense of the “how” we're supposed to do it. And it's often missing and so that's why we see this gaping hole emerge among pro lifers, and that stuff I think is often missing and this number this piece from, from Dan, I think points to one of those things as you said the hole in the movement and what we need to be doing about it.

BROWN: John Stonestreet is president of the Colson Center and host of the Breakpoint podcast. Thanks, John.

STONESTREET: Thank you both.

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