Culture Friday: “A cancer,” she said

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LINDSAY MAST, HOST: It’s Friday, February 13th. Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Lindsay Mast.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown. 

It's Culture Friday, and joining us now is author and speaker, Katie McCoy. 

Good morning, Katie.

KATIE MCCOY: Hey, Lindsay and Myrna, how are you?

BROWN: Doing well! 

Well, I'd like to start by getting your thoughts on the rantings of podcast host Jennifer Welch. Here she is on her “I’ve Had It” podcast:

WELCH: Evangelical Christianity is a cancer. These are the worst people in our country because they use their religion two ways; as a weapon and as a shield. They weaponize it whenever they want to and say, "we’re on the moral high ground. You’re a lesbian, you deserve to die. You’re a lesbian, the cops shouldn’t have revived you"…and then when you call them out on it, "how dare they…white Christians are so oppressed in this country." And they want it both ways, because in their religion, that duplicity is taught.

So Welch has quite a following, but I want to ask you, Katie, when you see Christians caricatured or maligned in popular media like this, what does a faithful response actually look like? I mean, how do we avoid becoming what we're criticizing?

MCCOY: It’s a great question. First, let’s back up and look at who this woman is and what this podcast is all about. I will confess to you, I had not heard of who this person was, and then I realized that she is in some of the top rankings of podcasts, and her guest list is like a who’s who in the Democratic Party, including, by the way, some 2028 presidential hopefuls. So, I for one would love to know whether they agree that white evangelicals are, quote, “the worst people in our country.” 

Now let’s consider what she actually said. She said "white evangelicals are a cancer," and then she mocks how Christianity, at least conservative Christianity in its theological expression, is culturally disfavored and certainly disparaged today as a tool of cultural oppression.

Here is what is so ironic about it, is the very values that she claims to want to espouse and advocate are products of Christianity’s influence in Western society. Practicing Christians, they are 40% more likely to donate to charity than non-Christians. Church-going Christians are 75% more likely to donate than non–church-going people. I mean, hospitals, schools, literacy programs, humanitarian organizations—these all go back to Christian benevolence, philanthropy, charity.

But see, what this podcaster does is something that is very common in our post-Christian society. A lot of people like some of the, maybe you might call them social virtues, but not the commands of Christianity. Well, that is considered un-Christian.

Now, with all of that in the background, Myrna, let’s ask your question: How do we respond to something like this? 

You know, I have to tell you, someone who would come at me with that level of vitriol and hate, I don’t know that I’m going to be able to convince them. But the passage that comes to mind most is 1 Peter 3: “Sanctify the Lord Jesus in your hearts, always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks us to give an account for the hope that is in us, but with gentleness and respect.” (Don’t forget that gentleness and respect part.) 

We’re very familiar with verse 15, but then consider verse 16: “And keep a good conscience, so that the thing in which you are slandered, those who disparage your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.”

And you know, Myrna, there’s a few things that stand out to me. Not to oversimplify this, but I see from this passage that my job is to keep a good conscience before the Lord and before others. It is not my job to ensure that other people who slander me are put to shame. That’s God’s business.

If we do that, we will be pleasing to the Lord, and I will say we will be effective in society. This is how Christians from generations of old have done it. We can do it too.

BROWN: Katie, you know, Welch made such a big deal about “white Christian evangelicals.” What about black evangelicals?

MCCOY: Yeah, isn’t it fascinating? This is that critical theory in action once again. 

We’ve talked about this countless times on this show, but can you imagine her saying "black Christians are a cancer on society and the worst of our country?" She would never say that. Why? Because this is an example of the way that critical theory attacks majority cultures and says that if you are in the majority, therefore you are morally evil, you are an oppressor of other groups. Has nothing to do with what you believe, what you espouse, it has everything to do with the composition of your demographics. 

It was really striking to hear her call out a skin tone and a religion, knowing that no other skin tone and no other religion would be treated with such vitriol on such a public platform.

BROWN: Mmhm. Another striking exchange that a lot of people are talking about is what happened with Congresswoman LaMonica McIver, her asking some pointed questions to an ICE official. 

Let's hear a little of that:

MCIVER: Do you think you're going to hell, Mr. Lyons? / I'm not going to answer that. / Oh, of course [unintelligible] / The gentle lady will suspend...

MCIVER: Mr. Lyons, do you consider yourself a religious man? / Yes, ma'am. / Oh, yes, okay, well, how do you think Judgment Day will work for you with so much blood on your hands? / I'm not going to entertain that question. / Oh, okay, of course not. 

Katie, what do you make of that? I mean, not a lot of gentleness, not a lot of respect.

MCCOY: Yeah, this was another thing that was just shocking to hear. I think I audibly gasped when I saw this on the news.

Now look, I’m not trying to give us all you know, victim complexes here, but I think we need to recognize that we who are going to live in the world are going to live just as Jesus said we would. Jesus said in John 17, they hate Him, so they’re going to hate His followers. And if we are living out our Christianity faithfully, it doesn’t matter the color of our skin, those who are outside of Christ will be in opposition to those who are in Christ. And how are we to respond faithfully with that? 

But yes, Myrna, it was such a moment.

Oh, I have to tell you, one of the best responses came from my friend Dr. Christina Crenshaw, who has written extensively on biblical justice, and she made the point that, "ah, so Christian nationalism, quote unquote, is now okay? Is this an example of it here that is now acceptable?" And it just goes to show the different standards and measures that are at play in our cultural discourses on political issues.

MAST: Well, Katie, I want to ask you, over the past few years, headlines, you've seen them, I've seen them, have hinted at a religious comeback; young men returning to church, Gen Z, rediscovering faith, even whispers of revival. 

But when you look closely at the data, that story may be more complicated. New York Times columnist Ross Douthat spoke with religion scholar Ryan Burge, and he argues the U.S. is not becoming more religious, but it has stopped becoming less so, key distinction there. Let's listen to a bit of that interview:

BURGE: What we’re seeing, interestingly enough among Gen Z, is that women are still leaving the church at an incredibly rapid rate. And men are still leaving, but at a slower rate. And what that ends up being is that the religiosity of Gen Z men and women is probably about the same now. It’s not that men are returning to church — this is a really important point. The data does not say—

DOUTHAT: Well, some men are.

BURGE: Some men are.

DOUTHAT: But in the aggregate—

BURGE: In the aggregate, we’re not seeing Gen Z men become more religious. It’s just they’re secularizing slower than young women are, and that’s allowing those lines to cross when it comes to religiosity.

So Katie, a lot of attention has gone to stories about young men coming back to church. But if Burge is right and that's the wrong framing, what do you think is the right way to describe what's happening?

MCCOY: Well, let me tell you, Lindsay, there are a few researchers that I would never want to go toe to toe with on data, and Ryan Burge is one of them.

I think the big headline over this is time is going to tell the fruit of certain trends, certain movements. You know, he brought up a very thoughtful point: men are essentially secularizing more slowly than women, but there’s still that underlying question of why.

You know, we can analyze our young men becoming more or less religious, whatever is motivating them to come to the church, I think we can say both men and women of Gen Z, they’re searching for models of how to form their identity, how to find community, how to overcome widespread alienation and a lack of meaning and purpose.

Men, especially in this next generation, are looking for positive visions of masculinity. Now there are some correlations here, I think we can say, between younger men trending more conservative politically, which sociologically speaking lends itself to being more religious.

So time may tell that this was kind of a cultural flash in the pan, but I really do want to have reason for hope that if young men are secularizing at a slower pace; why? What is it that perhaps they are finding in the message of the gospel, in the biblical vision for what it means to be a man, that they’re not finding out in society, that they’re not finding in the manosphere?

And so, whether or not Dr. Burge is correct, I think we still have an opportunity to be leaning into the conversations that Gen Z is having, and that centers so much on identity, community, meaning, purpose, isolation, and how we as representatives of Christ have that vision for what it means to live as an embodied being in community and in relationship with others.

MAST: Well, last question here, and another one, a little bit about numbers. The Human Rights Campaign is reporting a dip in its numbers. Once described as the largest and loudest LGBT organization, it appears to be losing momentum and influence. 

Now back in the early 2000s, the HRC began ranking companies on how well they aligned with their pro-gay agenda. They used a tool called the Corporate Equality Index and employers were graded on their willingness to make certain concessions, offering to cover the cost for gender transition procedures for workers and their families, or introducing pronoun guides to employees, things along those lines.

But it appears the bullying is crumbling. This year's index reveals the HRC lost 65% of its Fortune 500 participants. It went from 377 companies in 2025 to just 131—that's more than half. 

What do you make if it, Katie?

MCCOY: This is big news, Lindsay, and here’s why: this is signifying the cultural moment that we’re in.

First of all, the Corporate Equality Index is now just so 2020, people are totally over it. And what’s happening is we’re seeing that corporations are going to do what is in the best interest of their bottom line.

At the core of why we saw so many businesses just falling over themselves to incorporate LGBTQ advertising and messaging and friendly policies like providing gender transitions for employees, it’s that they believed that this was good for business. And what they are finding from just kind of, if you want to call it the revenge of the normies out there, is that no, they don’t want to have these ideological messages put in their face all the time.

That doesn’t mean that we’re going to be disrespectful. It doesn’t mean we’re going to be ugly or unloving to other people. But businesses are waking up to the fact that if their job is to make a profit, then they should not be doing stupidly unprofitable things like we have seen many businesses try to do.

So the HRC, the Corporate Equality Index, that has been held up as this gold standard that businesses were racing to try to achieve. And now, over 50% of the Fortune 500 companies just don’t care anymore. That signals a shift that is driven by the consumer.

So we vote with our dollars the things that we approve and disapprove of in corporations. And at the core of it, they’re listening. So hey, all you soccer moms who just took a different route on your grocery path instead of going to Target, congratulations!

MAST: Alright, Katie McCoy is an author and speaker. 

Katie, thanks so much for your time!

MCCOY: Thank you!

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