Unconditional and unsustainable

MARY REICHARD, HOST: It’s Thursday, the 5th of October, 2023.

You’re listening to WORLD Radio and we’re glad to have you along today. Good morning, I’m Mary Reichard.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown.

First up on The World and Everything in It, some evangelical pastors and churches are reconsidering Biblical sexuality.

STANLEY: If this is your first time with us, you came at a very unique, interesting time.

On Sunday, North Point Community Church’s lead pastor Andy Stanley gave his first sermon since speaking at the conference called Unconditional. The sermon was not live-streamed, but the audio included in this report was recorded by an attendee and uploaded to Soundcloud.

REICHARD: The conference was hosted last weekend at the church’s Alpharetta, Georgia campus by faith-based non-profit Embracing the Journey. The stated goal: support church parents and their gay and transgender children from what they call, the quieter middle space.

Stanley used his sermon to respond to criticism for being involved in the conference. He began by addressing an article written last month by WORLD Opinions Senior Editor Albert Mohler—who wrote that Stanley departs from Biblical Christianity.

ANDY STANLEY: I want to go on record and say I have never subscribed to his version of Biblical Christianity to begin with. His version, this version of Biblical Christianity is why people are leaving Christianity unnecessarily.

BROWN: Stanley defined Mohler’s version of Biblical Christianity as divisive lines drawn to keep people who experience same-sex attraction or transgender ideation out of the church, whereas Jesus “draws circles” to include them. Mohler responded this week on his podcast: The Briefing.

MOHLER: Indeed, Jesus did draw circles…But at the same time…Jesus drew many lines…He drew lines between the sheep and the goats with eternal significance…The question is where we faithfully draw the lines. Simply saying that it's conservative, fundamentalist evangelicals who draw lines, Jesus draws circles. That's not good enough.

Stanley identified Christians’ reliance on Scripture and prayer to guide their response to sexual sin as part of the problem. He provided emotional testimonies from people who claimed they found more help by turning to North Point’s resources. For nearly a decade before the Unconditional conference, Stanley has trained small group leaders on the topic. Speakers at the conference included two married homosexual men, who Stanley has turned to before to help his congregation understand what it's like for them.

STANLEY: You shouldn't be criticizing us, you should come and learn from us. They asked God to change them. And God did not answer their prayer. And now they feel confident…with their small group leader in church. We are restoring relationships. And we are literally saving lives.

REICHARD: Alan Shlemon is an author and speaker for Stand to Reason who attended the Unconditional conference. In an interview afterwards with Biola professor Sean McDowell, Shlemon agreed that some of the breakout sessions were beneficial. For instance, parents could learn about keeping a marriage together after a child comes out. But Shlemon said ultimately the positives were overshadowed by a ministry divorced from a Biblical theology and lacking in repentance from homosexual sin.

SHLEMON: They haven't even addressed the fundamental questions like, what is sex? What is marriage? They're not addressing these fundamental questions, because they don't believe these questions are fundamental to the conference. If I wanted to quietly mainstream pro-gay theology and transgender ideology into the evangelical church, I would build this conference…

BROWN: In Sunday’s message, Stanley claimed that North Point Community Church believes marriage is between a man and a woman, and that sex should be saved for marriage.

STANLEY: The gay attenders in our churches…expect that. They grew up on that…They prayed for that…

But Stanley went on to say that entering into a same-sex marriage is understandable, when God doesn’t seem to answer prayers for a traditional marriage…or when honoring Him with a celibate lifestyle is unsustainable.

Mohler called out Stanley’s unwillingness in his sermon to incorporate repentance from homosexual sin and obedience to Christ for sanctification.

MOHLER: The faithful church has nowhere to stand, but upon the authority of Christ as given to us, revealed to us in the Holy Scriptures which means we have nowhere to stand but on the scriptures…the scriptures are not unclear, the gospel is at stake, and so we had better be clear.

REICHARD: You can read more of Al Mohler’s response to the conference as well as WORLD Magazine reporter Mary Jackson’s coverage of the story online at wng.org. We’ve also included links in today’s show notes.

WORLD Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of WORLD Radio programming is the audio record.