Time for more paid family leave?

PAUL BUTLER, HOST: Coming up next on The World and Everything in It: Giving paid family leave policies a boost. In light of the Supreme Court’s Dobbs v. Jackson decision, major U.S. businesses are offering to pay for employees to travel out of state to get an abortion. But they often don’t pay for employees who have babies to take extra time off work to care for them.

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Supporters of paid family leave programs argue they improve the well-being of families and help women stay in the workforce. The idea is gaining traction with Republicans in Congress.

Joining us now to talk about it is Rachel Greszler. She is an economist at The Heritage Foundation whose work focuses on policies that promote economic growth, individual freedom, and well-being.

BROWN: Rachel, good morning!

RACHEL GRESZLER, GUEST: Good morning and thanks for having me, Myrna.

BROWN: Let’s start with the basics. What is paid family leave, and how widely available is it to American workers?

GRESZLER: Paid family leave is the ability,  the right to take time off from work without losing your job and also to be paid for that time that you take off. And so paid family leave is actually widely utilized by American workers. About 15% of workers have a need to take leave in any given year. Something that's a little misunderstood, I think about this is that actually most of the leaves that are taken are for an individual's own medical condition, that's more than half of the leaves that are taken. And actually only one in five leaves are to care for a new child that was born or to recover from that birth. On the access side, who has access to paid family leave, there is great news happening there. Access has increased 64% over just the past five years.

BROWN: Some conservative lawmakers are pushing for universal paid family leave since the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision on abortion. What makes this a pro-life issue?

GRESZLER: Well, this is a pro-life issue because caring for a new child is absolutely important. And having that access to paid family leave has undeniable value to all workers, but especially to pregnant women and the certainty of being able to take that time off for prenatal visits to recover from the birth and to bond with a new child that can play a major role in a woman's decision whether or not to carry her child to term.

BROWN: Let’s say the government instituted a program or policy to mandate paid family leave. How might that affect U.S. businesses and families?

GRESZLER: Yes, and so I think this is a really important question now is if we all want people to have access to paid family leave, especially mothers, what is the best way to actually increase access, and also for that access to be really valuable? And I measure that value in terms of a flexible and an accommodating policy.

Can the government actually provide an accessible program is the first question that really needs to be answered. And there we can look to a lot of government programs abroad. And also within the US within states. There's about 10 of them now that have these programs. They disproportionately benefit high income women, you know, in California, the first state to have a program, fewer than 4% of workers in the bottom quintile income quintile use paid family leave from the state compared to 21% of workers in the highest income quintile. And so you have a case there where the highest income mother is five times as likely to benefit from this government paid family leave program, than the lowest income mother.

And when we look at who are the women who are seeking abortions, half of them are living below the poverty level. And another 25% of them are between 100% and 200% of the poverty level. So will these programs actually be accessible to them? They're unlikely to be. A lot of those women, if you are below the poverty level, it's very unlikely that you have a job or that you have a stable job. And those are the qualifications to get these benefits, you have to have been working for a certain amount of time, you have to have a certain number of hours in earnings. And so by and large, unfortunately, these government programs just haven't been able to reach down to the people that need them.

My concern here is that we would have a government program and it would then display these more flexible and accommodating policies that are offered by employers and that we're seeing grow and expand rapidly. And instead, people would be pushed on to the more bureaucratic program.

BROWN: My kids are adults now, but I remember those days. What do parents say they want from the government and from their employers when it comes to time off to care for their children?

GRESZLER: Yeah, and this is something that's really close to my heart. Actually, I have six young children at home. And you know, just recognizing what is it that you need to actually be able to make the work and the family life balance? In it is absolutely that flexibility. And you know, that's my personal anecdote. But there are studies and there are surveys that are out there, including one from 2018 and it asks  parents, what do you most want? And of six items that were listed, more paid parental leave was actually the fifth on the list. And only 6% of parents said that was what they wanted. 60% of parents said that they either wanted more flexible work schedules or the ability to work remotely. And then there were other things like more part-time options, or daycare, but really more paid family leave was at the bottom of the list. And I think that gets to the fact that that's only the first 12 weeks of having a child when you have 18 years with them, you know, being in your life, and the nine months in the womb.

And so I think that we need to be thinking more comprehensively like, yes, absolutely paid family leave is a great thing. I'm 100% Pro paid family leave, you know. 100% against a government program, because I see it as taking away the policies that will actually help people. But I think we need to be looking towards things that provide more flexibility for parents across the child's entire life.

BROWN: Are there any other ideas floating around for how to address those needs? One being flexibility?

GRESZLER: We're seeing great growth. And I actually think that this is one of the silver linings of COVID-19 is just kind of a giant leap forward in workers ability to be getting these things and to have more family friendly workplaces. But talking about what is actually going on in Congress and the policies that the government is setting, there are some proposals out there, there's something called The Working Families Flexibility Act. What this would do is just allow private sector workers to have the same right that public sector workers do. If they work overtime to choose between either accumulating time and a half, time off, or time and a half pay.

And then also, there'sthings like considering a payroll tax credit if an employer offers private disability insurance, which is something that actually covers all of workers own medical leaves, and also maternity leave. So it gets out about three quarters of the leaves that are actually taken. And finally, I would just say, you know, policy wise, not raising taxes on businesses. And that's why we saw this giant leap in the number of employers offering paid family leave after the tax cuts and Jobs Act because a lot of them surveyed the workers and said, What do you want? You know, we have revenues that we're not having to give to the government anymore. What do you want us to do with them? And a lot of them said we want paid family leave and that's why we saw such an expansion there.

BROWN: Rachel Greszler is a working mom and senior director at The Heritage Foundation. Rachel, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

GRESZLER: Thank you, Myrna.

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