The border dilemma

MARY REICHARD, HOST: Coming up next on The World and Everything in It: A new plan for border security.

On Tuesday, President Biden signed an executive order that blocks new asylum claims at the U.S.-Mexico border.

JOE BIDEN: Migrants will be restricted from receiving asylum at our southern border unless they seek it after entering through an established lawful process.

The ban will remain in effect until the daily number of immigrants encountered at the border drops below 1,500 people.

But House Speaker Mike Johnson says the measure is too little too late.

MIKE JOHNSON: One executive order can in no way undo the 64 specific executive actions he's already taken and 3.5 years of chaos that they've allowed to ensue.

BROWN: So how could this executive order affect the immigration crisis?

Joining us now to talk about it is Gabriel Salguero. He’s President of the National Latino Evangelical Coalition and Pastor of The Gathering Place church in Orlando, Florida.

REICHARD: Gabriel, good morning.

GABRIEL SALGUERO: Good morning. Thanks for having me.

REICHARD: So glad you're here. Well, President Biden has resisted calls to close the border. Can you explain what's the difference between closing the border and what the president's latest executive order does?

SALGUERO: Well, one of the differences is that it's not an absolute closure. But it's functionally like a closure, because there are numbers, if there's seven consecutive days, that the number of asylum seekers and people coming to the border is above 2,500, they close it. And so this is a major turn in Biden's previous actions. And so although it's not an absolute closure, because people can still come and seek asylum, it's practically a functional closure, because the average is above that right now, and has been for some time.

REICHARD: Why now do you suppose President Biden let more effective policies used by former President Trump lapse? He threw them out on day one of his term. Why do you think he's doing this now?

SALGUERO: Look, I try not to speculate on people's intentions. But here's what I know: I know we had a similar bipartisan proposal out of the Senate that was negotiated by Senator Lankford and some Democrats, and it was it had strong bipartisan support in the Senate and came to the House, and it was roundly defeated. It didn't, it didn't go anywhere. And so I think that inaction by Congress has moved the president to take action. And it's interesting to see that much of the executive action resembles the bipartisan legislation that came out of the Senate, negotiated by Senator Lankford and others.

REICHARD: Well, I think it’s useful to remember that the reason objecting Republicans gave for rejecting that bill, though, was because it didn’t solve the problem. I think it would have accepted 5,000 illegal immigrants a day and would give automatic work permits to asylum recipients. They argued it would just be a magnet for more illegal immigration. Is that your understanding?

SALGUERO: Well, my understanding is that historically, the U.S. has had an asylum friendly system since World War II. It was there to protect predominantly Jews fleeing religious and political persecution in Europe. And it's legal, it's legal to seek to turn yourself in and seek asylum. I for one, think that that's one of the distinctives of our great nation, that people who can legitimately claim asylum should be processed and those who don't qualify, then they don't qualify and they shouldn't, they don't have to come into this country. But those who legitimately qualify should have the legal right and availability to to seek asylum. You know, I think that for.... Look, I'm a pastor, I'm not a politician. But I think Jesus was serious when he said in Matthew 25, I was a stranger, and you welcomed me.

REICHARD: I don’t want to skip over this next topic as I do hear and read stories from people whose family members were murdered by migrants who ought not be here in the first place. Some were apprehended earlier and then released even. That’s job one for the federal government, to protect our borders. What do you say to those people?

SALGUERO: Yeah, I would say it's deeply lamentable. And I would express first of all, as a pastor, my deepest condolences for the loss of loved ones, I think we should have deep empathy. For those who are grieving – Scripture teaches “mourn with those who mourn.” And I would say that the government has failed. When there are violent criminals in any population, the law should address them simultaneously. I would say, you know, there are criminal elements in every community, but we should not wholesale label communities, right? When a white nationalist killed African Americans at AME Church here, we can't say well, now all white people are nationalists. When we saw police acting inappropriately, most police are good. So we shouldn't do that. And so we should be consistent if we're Christians in how we treat groups of people.

REICHARD: Right. I do know what the answer to that would be, is that you cannot deport an American citizen, that so we do have a tool in our in our toolbox to deport people here illegally.

SALGUERO: Mary, my point is that the criminal justice system failed both communities. One is a federal system and one is a local system. Right. And so what I'm saying is, there are systems in place that need to deal with. In one we fail to identify a person who had written diatribes against certain communities. And in another we fail to identify a criminal immigrant. And we fail to deal with him justly. And so to me, that is the analogy that I'm trying to draw.

REICHARD: Well, one thing that President Biden and Republicans can agree on is that our system, our immigration system is just overwhelmed by the number of migrants coming over. That's not including the ones who aren't even caught. I want to ask you this, pastor: Former President Trump's “Remain in Mexico” policy did address much of that process. Do you think the U.S. could return to a system like that at this point?

SALGUERO: I think that the only way the U.S. is going to fix this problem is if Congress acts. And so every time a president acts, whether it's Trump or Biden, or Obama, or Bush, or you know – the last kind of long term action actually happened under Ronald Reagan – we're going to have a pastiche. And then there'll be lawsuits about the power of the executive to implement and execute executive orders. And it to me, I'm troubled as a pastor, that people complain about it in Congress, but there's no action. I lay the primary responsibility of this problem on the feet of Congress because they have the power of the purse, and they have the power of legislation. Presidents will respond as they can. But you know, presidents are not kings, they, they have limits, rightfully so, in a democracy.

REICHARD: Gabriel Salguero is President of the National Latino Evangelical Coalition and Pastor of The Gathering Place church in Orlando, Florida. Pastor, thanks so much!

SALGUERO: God bless you, Mary, and God bless your listeners.

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