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Listening in - A conversation with Rick Warren_pt 2 - S11.E15


WORLD Radio - Listening in - A conversation with Rick Warren_pt 2 - S11.E15

A man of ministry and his books

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RW: Well, Warren, we're in the RKW Building, which is the foundation buildings of Rick and Kay Warren. And when Purpose Driven Life sold, it's, it's now in English over 60 million copies. It's still selling a million a year. And it's has two Guinness World Records. One of them is it's the most translated book in the world, except for the Bible. So it's now in over 200 languages. So that brought in enormous amounts of money. And, and honestly, it scared me, because I'm a simple guy. I know what wealth can do to people, and how it can get you off base. But when you write a book of the first four words, "It's not about you," then you know the money's not for you. So we just gave it all away. But we put it in a couple of foundations. One's called Acts of Mercy, which started with helping people with HIV and AIDS, because it kind of like the lepers of the 21st century, Jesus would have hung out with them. But then it morphed into helping vulnerable women and children and orphan care. And then of course, when Matthew died, we started doing mental health issues. So on that side of the building, Kay has her staff. And in Acts of Mercy we do, she does all kinds of mental health meetings, conferences, resources and stuff like that. This side of the building is called Equipping Leaders. And it's my foundation, which has allowed me for almost 30 years to travel around the world and train pastors in little villages you've never heard of. And so we never charge anything. I take a team with me. I pay for all my travel all our meals, we I've never, I don't accept that honorarium, haven't accepted an honorarium and 30 years.

WS: Well Rick, let me just say, You've spoken at a couple of events for me. I've tried to pay you. I tried to pay for your travel. You've refused it. Yeah, I just, I just want to make sure that okay, well,

RW: Let's just walk out here first. This is kind of some fun stuff. This is what I call, these are my bobblehead collection. It's the decline of great Christian preaching. So we start here with Luther, and we got Calvin and we got Wesley and Spurgeon and Billy Graham, Dr. Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa, Pope, John Paul. Then we got Davey, Chuck Norris, Duck Dynasty and me at the end, which it really falls off the bottom here, okay. Really falls off the bottom. I did. Most people don't know this. I did. I have a platinum album. I did an album called The Invitation where I shared how to come to Christ and had Christian friends like Amy Grant and Steven Curtis Chapman sing between it, and it's over a million copies. These, this wall has all of our magazine covers. I put Kay's magazine covers on this side by the fire hydrant because she's hot. Okay, so all Kay's are on this side. These are just different, you know, I don't know 30, 40 Different magazine covers. Here's one. This is Michigan's USA Rick Warren's Zero to 40 in Eight Years. Here's Kay and me. Here's Josh, his little boy, Matthew's not even in this picture. Matt, Josh is 40, Amy's 42. Now, this is the one that came out on the cover of People: After a Son's Suicide. Different magazines. This was, this is an English magazine when I did the the debate between Obama and McCain: Pastor and Kingmaker. Publishers Weekly: "It's not just a book, it's a movement." And I said, that's over 60 million copies. This was Matthew's favorite. Hey, it's Brad Pitt and me on the cover of Newsweek and shows. I call this 'the hero and the zero' okay, he's the stud I'm the dud.

WS: Let me just ask you a quick question - were y'all, were y'all physically, we're y'all photoshopped or are y'all physically in the same place?

RW: We did a we did a we did a photo. We did a photo shoot together. Brad Pitt and I, it was a "15 People Who Make America Great" Giving Back Awards. But he well, see it looks like I'm just put, he say Dad, did you Photoshop this? Or did you photobomb, it's like Where's Waldo? And I said, he said, Can you get any smaller than this? Yes, here on Time Magazine, the 25 Most Influential Evangelicals, so you can cover me up, I'm at the top, but you can cover me with a thumb. Now they did this one here, Purpose Driven Pastor, which was a cover of Time Magazine. And it's funny, I had just that week had had nose surgery and split the stitches wrestling with my grandkids. And you can see the scar in my nose there. Now, what's funny is that Newsweek had me on the cover here, so I was on the cover of Time twice as on the cover of Newsweek twice. After this one, they did an article and a cover called "The Death of Christian America." And I wrote them a pretty scathing letter. I said, you guys will be dead in the water, but the church is the only thing that's going to last forever. And if you're wrong, well, at the end of that year, Newsweek actually went bankrupt, and actually went out of print for a while. And on the last issue, they did a hit piece on me, which it says Rick Warren Rises Again, if you don't look down here at the bottom, he has this big picture of Gengas Khan, it's got the same kind of mustache, or that I've got as a Rick Warren Rises Again - it's a hunt for Gengas - this is a badge of honor. Yeah. You know, actually,

WS: Yeah. You know, actually, we don't really know what Gengas Khan looked like.

RW: No, we don't we don't but but Rick Warren Rises Again in that big picture. So that's fun. So I love that. Down here. In this hall we have some of the over 200 translations - they're not all up right now - of Purpose Driven Life in different languages. Yeah. And one of them downstairs is in Braille.

WS: Rick, we've got to go in the kitchen here. I did not know this until this afternoon when I came here for the first time and saw your hot sauce collection. I mean, this is amazing.

RW: Well, I've got hundreds and hundreds of kinds of hot sauce here. They're all categorized. These are all about it's hot going in and coming out. These are all hear about hell and death. This is your Satan slow burn, Hot Sauce From Hell. Last Rites, that here's tongues of fire. This is my spiritual shelf. I have a political shelf over here. It's got hot sauce for Clinton and Trump and Hillary and Bob Dole and Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. This is my favorite one called Hot Sauce, Batch 37. There's a point where pain and pleasure intersect a new doorway to to a dimension of sensual euphoria wants to fire bones and burns ensues. Once the line is crossed. Once the bottle is open, once it touches your lips, there's no going back. Pain is good. So I say I don't just believe in how I eat it. Okay?

WS: That's great. One thing I noticed though, maybe you've got it in another collection. I'm from North Carolina. Texas Pete hot sauce comes from Garner, North Carolina.

RW: Garner. Well, well, the ghost the ghost peppers come out of North Carolina too. And, actually, hot sauces, what makes them hot is capsaicin. And capsaicin is what they put in pepper spray, and it's judged by what's called Scoville units. For instance, a bell pepper has no heat, it has eight Scoville units. Jalapeno has 30,000 Scoville units. Habanero 100,000, I have some hot sauces have over a million.

This is called the James Bond room. But it has 12 seats here. This is where our elders met for years. And we would have, I found my staff is more creative about the church when we're not at the church. So I would bring my staff over here a couple miles from the church property. in different places this way, this is a big kitchen. This is our State Dining Room. Because one out of every nine people in South Orange County goes to Saddleback Church. When I have heads of state and dignitaries, I can't really go to a restaurant, because they'll all, we'll all get recognized. So this is my State Dining Room. I've had multiple presidents here, kings, queens, heads of state, head of the United Nations has been here, the head of the World Bank has been here. dignitaries, Tony Blair, prime ministers, different people. And so we come here.

And this room here is what we call our map room. And at Saddleback. I've had 500 staff. And what I do is I bring them over here in smaller groups of 20, 30. And, and we have meetings here. And then we our campuses that are overseas, Saddleback Hong Kong, Saddleback Manila, Berlin, things like that. When it's ours, we put them on the screen. So all of my campus pastors - our 20 campuses - can come and meet here.

Then this is, oh, here, this will be kind of funny. We're standing in front of the men's and women's restroom. And there's a little handpainted sign over the women's restroom in Arabic with the toilet. I was doing the CS Lewis lectures at Oxford and Cambridge. And I get a call from Kay. She goes, Hi, honey. I'm in London. And I go, What are you doing here? He's supposed to be in Rwanda. She said, Well, I'm sick. And I'm they put me in the Royal London Hospital. Sounds pretty fancy, but it's actually quite rundown. It's in the East End of London, which is the Arabic, everything's Arabic. And she was there. And they said, the healthcare of course is free, because it's socialized medicine. But she said it'll take you six weeks to get an ultrasound. I said, No, we're going to put you on the plane. Go back to Orange County tomorrow take you to any clinic and get it done tomorrow. But when we left I stole this out of her ward, it says in Arabic, "Diarrhea Ward." And so I put it on the women's restroom.

This is Kay's section, Acts of Mercy, we're coming into here. And these pictures are off the wall right now. But I love these pictures because it shows Kay all around the world with different kinds of hair during her chemo, when she was had frizzy hair and no hair wearing a wig, she was working Mother Teresa's in Calcutta. This is an interesting thing right here on the wall. This is the largest humanitarian bill ever approved by the United States. It's called the PEPFAR bill, President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief. And here you see, here's President Bush at the time actually shaking hands with Senator Joe Biden. And it's here it's signed by Nancy Pelosi, Robert Byrd, who had Parkinson's and George Bush. This was a bill, which would was to help people, families, poor families around the world who had a family member dying of AIDS, it was authorized by Bush, and over $75 billion has been given to people poor people around the world, authorized twice through the Bush campaign. And then twice through, that's just more of Kay's... twice through the Obama presidency. Then it was authorized again by Trump, and then has been authorized by Biden. And over 75 billion given. The reason Kay has the bill, it was her idea. Bush gave her the gave her the bill. Yeah. Yeah. really made a big difference. So she's raised a lot more money than me.

All right, so let's come back over here. I am kind of a bookaholic. My mother was a librarian, and a bookstore manager for a seminary, gave me my first book at 14. And I started reading a book a day. And I have just collected since then. So this, let me show you my library. Good. Now, sometimes if you know one book, it opens the door to a whole lot of knowledge. So here is Purpose Driven Life. And you open up this book, and oh, look here. Here's a little hidden key, button, press that button twice really hard. Welcome to the Harry Potter library.

WS: Oh, my goodness. Holy cow.

RW: Now, everything in here, represent, there's a story behind everything. It would take me about two hours. Everything in here has something meaningful to me, a part of my ministry, different things that have happened over time. And we're looking at all kinds of statues and valuable things throughout history. I don't have time to go through it all. But I have for instance, like this here is, this here is Jonathan Edwards footstool, built from the wood outside his family. Over there, that is the music stand of Charles Spurgeon. I have all kinds of, my great great grandfather, here's the original painting of Spurgeon, who was the greatest preacher of the 19th century. He led my great great grandfather to Christ, sent him to America as a church planter. My great great grandfather's led to Christ by Spurgeon, went to Spurgeon's college, and then came here, so I have a lot of handwritten stuff. This is Spurgeon's famous, handwritten letter on depression. John Stott was one of my mentors. This is John Stott's preaching manual,right here. And look how tiny the messages are. I have Billy Graham's hat over there that he gave me, his glasses. In the 19th century. They used to make statues to megachurch pastors are called Staffordshire. Here's D.L. Moody. Here's Ira Sankey, his worship leader. Spurgeon, Spurgeon as a young man. Wesley.

This box. This looks like an old pirate's chest. My father was a pastor for 50 years, and in here, all of his sermons. Kay's daddy was a pastor for 50 years. Here's all of his sermons. Another one of my mentors, Harry Williams. This is an interesting thing from the Amazon. Some missionaries, see it's a piece of leather with all kinds of symbols written all over it in a circle. This is a teaching tool. This is the book, Purpose Driven Church, summarized in basic Amazon hieroglyphic kind of stuff, and they would teach the entire Purpose Driven Church book using this, and they started 17 houseboat churches on the Amazon using this map.

WS: I gotta ask you a question because actually, this is one of the questions that I got from social media, I think you're the reputation of your library precedes my visit. And someone asked me, you know, if the place was on fire, is there one book that you would grab before you left?

RW: Well, they're not in here. I actually have across the hall, a walk in vault that has the most rare, I have a quarter of a million books. But the most rare books are this building would burn down and that that room would that burned down in it. For instance, I have Luthers commentary on Galatians. Signed by Luther. I have a little track written in 1776, from a pastor in England, encouraging the people in America, pastors to not revolt. And it's against King George. And it says some friendly advice to our brothers in the colonies. And he said don't revolt against King George his hand sign John Wesley. Yeah, this is what I call my bucket of ministry. Oh, this is one of the Guinness Book of Records they own. Not only for purpose driven life, but the other one is, this is how to date is now over 4500. They sent three judges lived in my library for a week. And you see all these see how these have these little gold dots on the bottom. Okay, like this particular row has 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 of the books on that row have a means this hand signed by the author. I have the most books signed by authors. And I haven't from all over this is an old Edison that you wind up and do mess songs with the before electricity, just wind it up. This is an Amish bishops hat. This is my dissertation doctoral dissertation. But this guy the this book in this is John Harvard. And Harvard was the pastor who gave his money and the library to start Harvard University. Now what most people don't know is that of the 13 Ivy League schools, every single one of them except Cornell, were started by pastors to train pastors. And none of that's true anymore. But that's John Harvard.

WS: Well, before you go, Rick, your doctoral dissertation?

RW: New Churches for a New Generation. And it's subtitle: church planning to reach baby boomers, a case study of Saddleback Valley Community Church, this is basically the purpose driven church in academic form. That's what it was. This was this award here was given to me by a Russian communist general, when the Cold War sir it's still going on for what we're trying to do with the peace plan. And what we've done in in Russia, this is Dante here in the fireplace. So Josh, my son put him in the inferno. We have a lot of interesting things here. There's, this was given to me by the Pope. Here. This is from the Berlin wall when it fell. This is a slide rule that every one of my mentors gave me something personal. This is Ralph winter. missiologists was in as an engineer gave me that. My my mother, this is an interesting little thing. This is the Charter of the United Nations. And you read it says her handwriting my mother I dot Warren, Dorothy Warren attended the voting of the UN Charter on June 26 1945. In San Francisco, California. That's something these are given to me my main chi, the alpha Indian chief, who murdered Jim Elliot. Okay. This was the story here. And I was born in January 54. In January 56. Missionary jungle martyrdom. There's a 10 page story here on Elizabeth Elliot and, and Rachel St. And, and these are the guys who died on the 50th anniversary of that martyrdom, they found the original plane still in the sands in Amazon. I had it brought to America, reassembled and put on stage and invited mankind to come and Nate Saint translated and he preached at Saddleback, and all kinds of Native Americans came to Christ.

WS: I wonder if that Life magazine?

RW: Yeah, this is interesting here. Look at this Time magazine, of 1940. This is a martyr of 1940. And when you come to it well, that's Martin Niemueller. And where is that story? Niemueller, the martyr of Germany. There's an incredible quote, I want to read you here. Here we go. Here's an article in Time Magazine about the cover of it says, not you Hear Hitler but God Is my Fuhrer. These defiant words by Pastor Martin Niemueller are echoed by millions of Germans, and Hitler raged. It's Niemueller, or it is I - and this is this is 1940. This is before the Holocaust really get started. And so you come down here and it says more than 80% of the prisoners in concentration camps are not Jews, but Christians. And the best tribute of the spirit of Germans Christians comes from a Jew and an atheist. Okay, the world's most famous scientist, Albert Einstein, he says this quote, this is Einstein talking 1940. "Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came to Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth. But now the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked at the great editors of the newspapers, whose flaming editorials in days gone by proclaim their love of freedom. But they, like the universities were silenced in a few short weeks. Only the church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any," now this is Einstein, "I never had any special interest in the church before. But now I feel great affection and admiration, because of their persistence to stand for intellectual truth, and moral freedom. And I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised, I now praise unreservedly." Albert Einstein on the church,

WS: That's a pretty remarkable testimony right there. Yeah.

RW: This is like a Nobel Prize for the Middle East. I don't have time to give you the story. The whole background mine is given to me by the King of Jordan. But I was there. These are just old books that I have. This is an interesting way to every nation. Every decade at Saddleback, we've had a 10 year goal. One of the goals between 19 2002 1010 was, why don't we be the first church to go to every nation? Jesus said, go make disciples. Has anybody ever done that? So he said, Why don't we do that? Well, I didn't even know how many nations that were there. 197 there 195 part of the UN, the only two nations in the world, not a part of the UN are Taiwan shining them won't let them in, and Serbia for war crimes. So he said we'll be in all 197 nations by the end of the decade. So we came up with a thing called the peace plan, P-E-A-C-E plan a church, equipped servant leaders, assist the poor care for the sick, educate the next generation. And over the next 10 years, I send out 28,869 of my members to 197 nations. And on December excuse me, October 18 2010, two months before the deadline, that decadal goal. We went to nation 197 little island in the Caribbean called St. Kitts, only 35,000 people, but we planted church were the only church to have planted a church in every nation. And so we made a movie about it. And we made this book called to every nation, the story of one church going to every nation by the end of 2010. And these pictures, Oren are taken by our members in each of the 197 countries that we planted at church and not amazing.

This is a Crozier which is a bishop step. This is the Babylonian Talmud, which was the what the rabbi's wrote when date when Daniel was in the 70 years of captivity. These are the great oriental books, the Analects, Confucius, the Dharmapedia, the Ou Ching. Okay. Bhagavad Gita, these are the great Greek, Euripides, Plato, Aristotle's Homer, Homer, Epictetus, these are the great Roman Christians. Okay, Augustine, Dante, Allah, Gary Aquinas. These are the great Russian Christians, Solzhenitsyn's Chekhov, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy. These are the great novels of history. These right here are the great political works of history. These are the great poets of history. These are the great, that's political leaders. These are the great philosophers and the great military leaders and the great scientists on that you'll see on every in I have statues, and these are all these people have influenced my life. So for instance, this is John Bunyan who rivals the one book that rivals Purpose Driven Life. This is Pilgrims Progress, every edition. Okay, Spurgeon is still the most published author in the English language, I have all of his books. Before there were baseball cards, there were cigarette cards, and two pastors actually made in cigarette cards. This one's here, Wesley, and here's Spurgeon. Now neither these guys smoke cigarettes. Spurgeon did smoke a pipe, I mean, a cigar. And on the back, it says, "I smoke to the glory of God."

WS: Exactly, right.

RW: Okay, here's, here's Tolkien and Lewis and influence on me. This is W.A. Criswell - for 50 years pastor first Baptist Dallas, one of my mentors. Here I have across, looking at it across from each other across the aisle. This is the Calvin aisle. And here's the Wesley aisle, I've got these statues of both these guys. I make them kiss and make up. I said they had they, neither of you got it completely. Right. You're right on some stuff. You're write on some stuff. So you're brothers in the Lord - work on it together. Okay.

This hat when I was invited to do the inaugural prayer for President Bush, most people didn't even know I did it. It was totally forgotten, because it wasn't controversial. I said, If I ever told K, it was snowing that day, that over that week of inauguration, and I said, if we ever get asked to do this again, I gotta get a hat. Four years later, I'm sitting on a plane to get a call from Senator Barack Obama. Now, Brock had been to Saddleback for an AIDS conference. When I invite a politician, I never invite one. I invite both sides at the same time. So because I'm not a partisan at all, I've been invited every four years to speak to the pray at the Republican convention and as the Democrat and I always turn them down, because those are political partisan things, but I will pray at a government event because it's a nonpartisan event. So I prayed President Bush's inauguration. And four years later, Obama, President Obama asked me to pray at his so then I said, where do you get a hat? I said, we got to go up to West Hollywood to get a hat it Mad Hatter's it's where all the Orthodox Jews get their their for doors. And so I go up to West Hollywood. And I walk in and the owner looks like Carlos Santana go Hey, Carlos. He goes, Yeah, I get that all the time. So I explained to him I gotta get a hat. He helps me pick out a beautiful Homburg hat. I said, I'm never gonna, I'm not a hat guy. But I gotta have a hat for the inauguration. Well, I take it back to my hotel. And to make a long story short, we have emergency health emergency with in our family, and I had to rush over to UCLA hospital. And I left the hat there. When I came back. It had been stolen out of my room. My computer was there. Everything they just thought was brand new hat had boxes.

And the reason I was in that hotel is I was doing a Bible study for Hollywood producers at the time. And so the the producer of the Shrek series, and the producer, the Star Trek series, and X Men, they were all in a Bible study with me. When I go back to the hotel that they'd got me for this study, it was stolen. Well, I really didn't want to buy another hat because I thought I already spent a lot of money and I will never wear it again. Ten days later, I get this hat in the mail. Beautiful Hamburg hat. You're looking at here and a handwritten note from my mentor, and said, direct. You know, I love you like a son. I wore this hat too. I don't remember how many it was 11 inaugurations or whatever? He said. It's your time now you're the man. wear the hat. Love, Billy. This is Billy Graham's hat. And I go, Oh, God, please don't make my head head be too big for Billy Graham's hat. I couldn't handle the shame. Warren has such an ego that he can't wear Billy Graham's hat. So I walked in and I, I put it on and didn't actually fit. So this went to another inauguration. I wore Graham's hat to another inauguration.

Now, here's the funny part of the story. We're sitting on the Capitol steps. It's the largest inauguration in history. It's a million people. On the front row here is President Bush's and family. And here's President Obama's family. That's the front row. Second row is all the former presidents Clinton Carter. Bush one all the foreign presence. Third row sitting next to me is Chief Justice Roberts, who's going to do the bow, me is gonna do the prayer. Kay, and the rest of the row Secret Service watching the front two rows. So we've got the best seats in the house. Now, right behind me is sitting Aretha Franklin, who's gonna sing the national anthem. She's dressed all up in a bundle. She's all dressed up. She's got a hat. It's about as tall as Bart Simpson's hair - it goes straight up. She turned around and said, "Rick, you got to pray for me. I don't like the cold and I've got a cold. I don't know if I'm gonna have a voice." "Aretha, you'll do fine, but I'll pray." So I prayed with her right there. Now I had done the homework. And I said, "Aretha I happen to know," because I knew she was gonna I want to know that was on the program. "I I happen to know that your daddy was a Baptist pastor. And he marched in Detroit, with this guy here." I'm pointing to a statue of Martin Luther King across from the Billy Graham stuff. And I said, "Martin Luther King, he marched with Dr. King in, in Detroit. And you came with your daddy, to the I Have a Dream speech right down there." So I said, "As a black woman, what are you feeling right now? Watching the first African American guy get inaugurated, what are you feeling?" And she pauses and she says, Well, Rick, I'm cold. I'm cold.

And so anyway, they took a picture. 360 degree picture what a million people look like. I don't know, I must have moved when when they took this picture. Because Kay calls me one day. She's at the Smithsonian for African American heritage. And she says there's a picture of that inauguration. It's 20 feet tall covering a wall. And we're all in it because it's the picture of us. And she said, Chief Justice Roberts, just perfectly clear. On the other side of you, I'm perfectly clear. But Billy Graham's hat is suspended up here in space. Somewhere in the middle space, up to your neck is clear. And on top of your neck, is Aretha's hat. So your face isn't in the picture. So I can't actually prove so I said that's the model in the in the face that that's the picture that's in this so I can't actually prove it. But then I told Aretha I said, you know Aretha, that's a big deal to now get to do besides Billy Graham. I'm the only guy who's ever prayed for Democrat and Republican. But I said actually, the day before was a bigger deal to me, because yesterday was the 40th anniversary of Dr. King's death in Martin Luther King Day. And the King family. I was in Atlanta, where the King family invited me to be the first white guy to preach in Dr. King's church, Ebenezer Baptist Church. So yesterday, I did the service for the 40th anniversary of Dr. King. And that was a big deal because that guy was a pastor. Okay, he had he had this guy's a politician, this guy's a pastor, and that and he's a Baptist pastor. And it meant more to me to be there. So that night, I spent the night with Dan Cathy, head of Chick-fil-A. And the next day he let me fly up with him on the Chick-fil-A jet. That's how I got to the thing the next day.

These are different things I've collected of anti-slavery abolitionists. This is a abolitionist, 150 year old medallion. And it's got a black guy in chains. And here around it, it says, "Am I not a man and your brother?" And they would sell these and that and then they would use that for the Underground Railroad. 75 years later, this one's from England during Wilberforce, and it's got a woman black woman in chains on her knees. And it says on the coin, "Am I not a woman and your sister?" So this is John Brown, who basically started the Civil War of a bunch of different I have several autographed things from Dr. King, including a letter. This is a Catholic section and who started your church, and it's got all the heretics on it. Okay, so it's good. Well, Jesus started ours in, you know, A.D. zero. But then Martin Luther said 1517 started this, and Henry VIII started the Anglican. Calvin started the Calvinists and Knox started the Presbyterian; you get up to the top, Rick Warren, 1980 started Saddleback. I'm on the list of heretics!

This is my most prized possession. This is William Booth, found at Salvation Army. This is their highest award, the Salvation Army award called the Evangeline Booth award. And they give it only twice to non Salvation Army people for humanitarian effort. One of them was given to Billy Graham , the other was to me. So that's a big deal to me. This is my political section here. See how all the presidents have signed their books? In my lifetime, these are covers of Time Magazine. I've had the presidents in my lifetime sign it, you know, Ford and, and Johnson, Carter, and Bush one and Clinton, Bush. This was when these two guys did the debate here. Obama, I actually have the last few presidents - they're just not out here. But the only one I don't have is Reagan, but Reagan was my governor. And I have a picture of Reagan wearing a Saddleback cap. So this is John, King John who's signing the Magna Carta. This is my Jewish shelf. Einstein and and different, this is the actual Ark of the Covenant right here. "It's beautiful. Ah!" (joking, quoting a line from 'Raider's of the Lost Ark' movie). Okay, these are these are all of the guitars that I played, the drums I played growing up.

WS: Do you play guitar now?

RW: Yes, yes, I still do. Yeah. This is called the Magic Lantern which they used to, let's see, there's David and the Lord is my shepherd. Everything in here has a story.

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