Every vote counts

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: Coming up next on The World and Everything in It: To vote or not to vote.

On Tuesday, we heard from black voters in Georgia who support Donald Trump. But what about Republicans who don’t? What options do those voters have now that the Republican convention is over and the party has selected its nominee?

LINDSAY MAST, HOST: One of those Republicans is Asa Hutchinson, the former governor of Arkansas who ran in the Republican primary last year. He’s one of just a few candidates who continue to say they will not support Donald Trump’s campaign for a second term.

BROWN: WORLD’s Washington Bureau Reporter Carolina Lumetta recently interviewed former governor Hutchinson to learn more about his outlook on the election.

Here’s their conversation.

CAROLINA LUMETTA: Governor Hutchinson, thank you for joining us.

ASA HUTCHINSON: Great to be with you today. Thank you.

LUMETTA: Well, I had the chance to chat with you briefly at the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee last month. I'm curious, how did it compare to previous years? What was your impression on the direction of the party?

HUTCHINSON: Well, unique qualities. One of them is you've got Donald Trump coming off of the assassination attempt. So it's a great deal of unity within the convention hall, and really respect for the way he handled that assassination attempt and his message that we ought to tone down the rhetoric, let's make sure we have a convention that's not demonizing the other side, basically. And so it was a very good start to the convention. Now, I do think that there's a lot of self-selection in the unity. The national media story was how unified the Republican Party is around Donald Trump. But you start thinking about that, you didn't have George W. Bush there. You didn't have Mitt Romney there, former nominee of the party, or Paul Ryan. And so there was great deal of unity there and excitement about the fall campaign. But quietly, underneath all of that, you know that there were a lot of people who weren't there.

LUMETTA: Well, speaking of the former president, you were last a speaker at the RNC in 2016 where you said this about the then candidate, Donald Trump, and I wonder if we could just play a bit of that clip to lead into my next question.

HUTCHINSON: Donald Trump represents a different kind of leadership. He is exactly the kind of transparent, straight talking leader America needs right now. A Trump presidency will be about the art of the possible. Donald Trump is the right leader for our time.

LUMETTA: So, I play that because you have been very clear now that you will not endorse or vote for Trump. Can you explain why?

HUTCHINSON: Well, first of all, that was a pretty good speech I made, and it was the right speech for 2016 but it's not the right message or what I believe today. And the difference is, you've had January 6, and I watched that from the governor's office in Little Rock, and I saw the attack on the Capitol. I saw Donald Trump denying the election results and refusing to accommodate the peaceful transfer of power. And particularly with the January 6 attack, I said that even though he may or may not be legally responsible, he's certainly morally responsible, and I said he should not be—I'll never support him again.

LUMETTA: Well, you mentioned that character counts, and you've lost trust in that with former President Donald Trump. How would you balance Trump with Christian principles? And do you believe that Christians can vote for Trump in good conscience?

HUTCHINSON: Well, I think Christians can certainly disagree on this point. Right now, you've got two choices, two major choices, and whether it's Nikki Haley or others and good Christians that say, you know, "I think that Donald Trump would do better in protecting our religious freedom than the other side." So I respect that conclusion if you come to it. And it's not easy now, whenever you just got two major candidates. I think the two major parties have failed us and given us two choices that are not, in my judgment, healthy for America.

LUMETTA: What do you think about Vice President and now presumptive Democratic nominee Kamala Harris? Would you vote for her?

HUTCHINSON: No, I'm a Republican, so I'm going to write in a Republican candidate. And you know, I'm hopeful that both of these major candidates will perform better in the fall. I hope that Donald Trump gets back to the economic issues, our national security issues, and focuses on, on how he can make a difference. But I expect to vote Republican this year, probably writing in a candidate, as many others will be this year.

LUMETTA: So, even though this is likely to be another very, very close election, you wouldn't describe it as throwing away your vote?

HUTCHINSON: I wouldn't, but it's also a matter of conscience. I think that, you know, whenever voters say "none of the above," that vote counts. Whenever you do write in someone else, that sends a message as well. And the most important thing is that you do vote because there's Senate races and House races that are critical for our country. And so again, I respect those that say, "He's the nominee and I'm going to support him no matter what." I understand the thinking on that. Nikki Haley made a persuasive speech on the convention floor. That's just not where I am, and I'm sticking with that.

LUMETTA: Well, final question, what are you praying for in this election cycle and for the future of the party in the country?

HUTCHINSON: You know my prayer is that the Donald Trump that we saw coming out of the assassination attempt would look to take that healing moment and make it more lasting and not be a divisive leader. Secondly, I pray that we will make sure that we have a conservative House or Senate, that whoever is president will be able to have the right checks and balances. And then I just pray for our country, that we will return to God, that we will recognize that we have an eternal responsibility to him, both in our words, our actions, and that the United States has been blessed, and that we ought to recognize the blessings of God here in our democracy and say we're going to continue to stand with our allies abroad for freedom.

LUMETTA: Governor, thank you so much for sharing your time and your thoughts with us today.

HUTCHINSON: Good to be with you. Thank you.

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