Culture Friday: Postman and our politics

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: It’s Friday the 7th of March.

Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Myrna Brown.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: And I’m Mary Reichard

Well, it’s Culture Friday. Joining us now is John Stonestreet, president of the Colson Center and host of the Breakpoint podcast. John, good morning!

JOHN STONESTREET: Good morning.

REICHARD: I learned a new term from your Breakpoint column this week. People identifying as “HENRYs.” That’s an acronym for “high earner, not rich yet.” HENRYs. These are folks earning incomes of hundreds of thousands of dollars, but still feel they live paycheck to paycheck.

Now we’ve all heard money can’t buy happiness, but my point is, neither does poverty.

So my question is: what’s the lost perspective among the HENRYs, these high earners, not rich yet people?

STONESTREET: Isn't that an interesting term? It was new to me too. One of our folks on our editorial staff at the Colson Center brought that. But it just said so much. It just reflects how disconnected people are from a proper understanding of things like work and the relationship with work and well being and the relationship between work well being and things like happiness and then also just income.

Now I think there's a lot of factors here. As a friend likes to say, this is probably a case of not one thing, but everything, a whole lot of things. For example, incredible amounts of debt. We know that, and we know that that, in and of itself, is indicative of a worldview shift, one which the early sociologist Pitirim Sorokin called this shift from being ideational as a culture to being sensate as a culture, living for some sort of higher ideal, as opposed to living for immediate gratification. A secular society is one in which we are untethered. We're unattached from anything eternal, anything vertical, anything transcendent. And so life becomes the here and now, and how you then fulfill that vision of life certainly affects what you think about work and what you think about money. I think this also reflects this ever changing definition. I remember a comedian talking about flying next to someone on those early days when we just got internet on planes, and he was so mad that the internet wasn't working. And he said, How is it that you can feel entitled to something you didn't know existed until 30 seconds ago? This is the case in a culture of stuff, where we have so many new toys that are supposed to make life easier, and we have confused, of course, an easier life with a happier life. And so we need these things, or we think we need these things.

And certainly, if you read this article which the HENRYs were introduced to me, that's what you're hearing. You're hearing people who just can't believe that they can be happy without a particular level of and then just fill in the blank. Certainly, it has a lot to do with income, but it has a lot to do with stuff.

You know, the choice to live in some of the most expensive places on the planet and drive cars that are incredibly expensive, and have clothes that are incredibly expensive, and eat at restaurants that are incredibly expensive, and then be in debt despite the fact that your your income level should, should have you out of that. So, you know, this is the shifting of value. So that's another factor in all of this.

But underlying this, and to really specifically answer your question, the lost perspective. It's fascinating the people who are writing right now about happiness, certainly Arthur Brooks, who used to, you know, lead the American Enterprise Institute, and recently, at the Arc Conference in London, Arthur Brooks had a really important thing to say, which is, look, once you're above survivability, the level of income is absolutely unrelated to the level of happiness. And that happiness is a result. It's a product of enthusiasm and perspective and a number of things, he said. But the main thing, meaning, if you don't think life has meaning, all the money in the world can't make meaning. And that's the thing that's missed, I think, at the end of the day.

BROWN: I’m pretty sure I don’t even like the word happy. I’d rather say joy.

Well John, if you watched President Trump’s speech to Congress earlier this week, you saw Texas Representative Al Green’s relentless heckling. It got him booted and sparked talk of censure.

Meanwhile, Maine State Representative Laurel Libby was censured, not for shouting, but for a social media post .

She shared two photos of the same boy. In one, he’s fifth in the boy's pole vaulting. In the other, he’s first in the girl’s category.

Her post went viral. The backlash was swift. So now, she’s banned from speaking or voting until she apologizes.

This looks less like lawmaking and more like the culture war hijacking the process. What do you think, John?

STONESTREET: Well, absolutely, and there's no question that politics has become showmanship. I mean, then that's not something that's dedicated to one side of the aisle or the other. I mean, it's certainly something that has to do with a culture that moves from being word based to being image based, or being, you know, book based or literacy based, to being entertainment based, as Neil Postman wrote about.

There's so many times, I think we talked about this a couple weeks ago. There's so many times you just see stories like this, and you're like, Postman. Postman, it's all in Neil Postman. You know, it's all in amusing ourselves to death. Kind of what this means.

Now, look, the silencing, the absolute silencing of what happened to this main representative, Laura Libby, is absolutely shameful. What happened to her was more than just a censoring that leads to a consequence in terms of her ability to fulfill her job, they publicly, or attempted to publicly humiliate her by silencing her. And I think she came out on top, and they came out looking humiliated, because really we have it's so interesting to see how much things have changed on this cultural issue.

Three years ago, it seemed like the trans train was unstoppable, that it was going to overrun every aspect of culture. And now that doesn't look like that. And so when someone behaves this way, like the Speaker of the main House did when he, you know, interrupted Libby as she was trying to make a speech while she was asking the legitimate questions behind her social media post, when she was trying to figure out why someone who had posted public images of himself, transitioning and all that, why suddenly he she's in trouble for doing that. It just seemed like theater on behalf of trying to basically push a point when you've run out of arguments.

And Maine looks like an isolated case.Although I think it is proof that there's they're not the only isolated case. I mean, I'm in Colorado, we're seeing the same sort of showmanship from those who want to progressively push culture war issues like abortion and like the trans issues. And, you know, in this local setting, we feel basically powerless to do anything to stop it. We don't have a real conservative voice in the political process in Colorado right now that that's worth anything honestly. Basically, we're getting overrun. And so it's a reminder of even though it is this level of showmanship that the political consequences are localized now to a degree that wasn't true just a couple years ago and on these cultural war issues. And so I know we hear this all the time, all politics is local, and it's very much true on these issues right now.

REICHARD: Alright, tagging onto that: people love to post things on social media of a political nature and then get into snarky little fights with total strangers. I doubt anybody’s ever convinced that way, but why are some of us (okay, me) compelled to do it anyway?

STONESTREET: It seems irresistible, doesn't it? I mean, it is a fruitless point. Again postman. Postman, it's all in Postman. I think that we all need to reread Neil Postman. There's actually a new book trying to make some of those applications of Neil Postman to today. And I'm glad that that's out there.

You know, I don't know, but it is a bizarre thing. I mean, you think about some of the Proverbs, and what I love about The Book of Proverbs is they're just good common sense. As you know, a buddy of mine in Tennessee used to say, these ain't rocket surgery, you know, these are basically saying what is clearly true like, and it's not this esoteric Buddhist wisdom from a guru on top of a mountain who says something you're not sure you really understand, but it sounds really deep, right? This is like, you know, don't hang out with silly people. And, you know, a soft answer turns away wrath, you know, and don't, as Jesus said, don't, don't, don't proclaim Your righteousness before, before men. And you think about this kind of easy, simple advice that's in the Proverbs and in other parts of the Scripture and how social media basically violates, how we behave on social media can basically violate all of those things.

A soft answer turns away wrath. That's true everywhere. And yet, for some reason, we think, Oh, the rules are different when it gets on social media. And that's just one example. I think there's lots of examples of these basic ways of interacting with other people. Treating them with dignity and respect, and also not having to be right at the end of the day, not having to win every debate, that somehow, when it comes online, we just have to have the last word.

I do think, too, that it's at the point where, gosh, it can really poison someone's character. And what I mean by that is to not, at the end of the day, be able to resist. I don't do this anymore, mainly because I'm private and I just don't want to talk to strangers. When it seems irresistible, and our inability to exhibit self control. I mean, I think it's time for some of us to do that kind of introspection and say, Was that really worth it? And seek ye first, the kingdom of God and His righteousness. How does that apply to this? Like, am I willing to be quiet right now? Because it's actually not going to advance the conversation at all? These are important questions.

BROWN: Before we let you go John, we have an extended Culture Friday program airing this weekend featuring our conversation with New York Times Opinion columnist and author, Ross Douthat.

You, me, Nick and Katie McCoy talked with him about his new book Believe, Why Everyone Should Be Religious.

So, what was your big takeaway from the interview?

STONESTREET: Well, it was certainly an enjoyable conversation that has a lot to do with Ross Douthat, who is just has an ability to skate to where the puck's going. To think about where when he had to, you know, theoretically have started this book, and where we're at culturally, where you have high profile intellectuals, you know, rediscovering Christianity. When you have some of the voices who, a decade ago, told us that God's a delusion and religion poisons everything now, saying that we need Christmas carols and Christmas lights and, you know, and Jesus. And, you know, gay atheists telling 4000 people in London Just a couple weeks ago to read the Bible.

There is obviously a return to the fascination with religion and what that will come with is various forms of spirituality. And Ross sees this, and he's making a case. He's making kind of a modern day apologetics case for not only why you should reconsider, like a whole lot of other people are doing right now. And that's why I think this is a book and some ideas that will have a wide hearing. But specifically you should consider the claims of Christ. Now you know what that looks like for him as a Roman Catholic, is different than me. And I think I would say, look specifically at Christ first, and then, you know, let it go from there.

But Douthat is a really helpful thinker in this regard. He has an ability to see beyond some of the cultural noise that tends to dominate the conversation and kind of see what's really happening in this cultural moment. I think this is another example of that, just like you know, the book on Decadence that he wrote back in 2020.

REICHARD: John Stonestreet is president of the Colson Center and host of the Breakpoint podcast. Thanks, John!

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