A final win

MYRNA BROWN, HOST: It’s Thursday the 10th of October.

Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Myrna Brown.

MARY REICHARD, HOST: And I’m Mary Reichard.

Up first: case dismissed in Colorado.

JUDGE: Court will call 23SC106: Master, Masterpiece Cakeshop and Jack Phillips versus Sardina...

REICHARD: In June, the Colorado Supreme Court heard arguments in the latest case involving Christian cake baker Jack Phillips. He first went to court in 2012 after a same-sex couple sued him for declining to bake their custom wedding cake.

BROWN: Twelve years and one U.S. Supreme Court win later, Phillips was back in court, this time for declining to bake a custom cake celebrating a so-called gender transition. And this week, the Colorado Supreme Court dismissed that case.

Is this the end of the cake baker’s legal saga?

Here now to talk about it is Jack Phillips and Alliance Defending Freedom Chief Legal Counsel Jim Campbell.

Good morning!

JIM CAMPBELL: Good morning.

JACK PHILLIPS: Good Morning.

BROWN: Jack, this isn’t the first time you’ve gotten the news about a big court decision…where were you when you got the news about this one? And how did you feel?

PHILLIPS: I was at the shop, and one of the attorneys for ADF, who's been representing me, gave me a call and said that they had the decision and that the case was dismissed. It was exciting, because we've been in court for over 12 years, and it's been a long road, and now this one, I asked him, pretty much right away, can this be appealed? And he said, “No, the way this, the decision came down. It cannot be appealed.” And so this one is done.

BROWN: Done, done.

REICHARD: Jim Campbell, ADF has been with Jack since the beginning. You’ve seen all these cases. What are the facts that led to this latest Colorado Supreme Court decision?

CAMPBELL: So this case first arose when Jack received a request from an activist attorney, and that attorney sought a pink and blue cake to symbolize and celebrate a gender transition. That was something that Jack couldn't do. It's not a message he can express for anyone. It's not something that's consistent with his faith. And so he politely declined. But this attorney filed a lawsuit against Jack. Initially filed a complaint with the state of Colorado, and that case eventually went away, and then this attorney tried to file another case in state court, and the ruling that we got earlier this week simply said that the attorney used the wrong process, and so the court threw the case out and said that it can't go any further.

REICHARD: So both Jack and Myrna used the word “done” earlier. Is it done? Is this decision the final word on compelled speech?

CAMPBELL: So the Colorado ruling is based on a question of state law, and this ruling was issued by the Colorado Supreme Court. The Colorado Supreme Court is the highest court in the state of Colorado, therefore there's no one else to appeal to. This decision is the final word on this case, but the court didn't need to reach the idea of compelled speech because it found that it didn't even have a basis to address the legal issues before it. But I will say that last year, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a ruling in a case called 303 Creative LLC v. Elenis. And in that decision, the Supreme Court made clear that states can’t apply their laws to force people to express messages they disagree with. That simply violates the First Amendment, And so that case provides ongoing protection for Jack.

BROWN: Well, back to you Jack. You've been harassed for more than 12 years. What have these lawsuits cost you?

PHILLIPS: That's something that I really don't have a good answer for. I know we had to give up doing our wedding cakes. And a wedding cake, that was a lot of our income. But it's more than just the income. When you speak to a bride and you plan the wedding cake, you design it. You sit down, you make sketches and everything, and then you get the order, and you do the cake, and you deliver it, and everything goes well. Then next thing you know, you're doing an anniversary cake and a baby shower cake and first birthdays, and you've if you do it right, you develop a customer for life. And that's what we want to do. We serve everybody. We want to serve everybody with respect and do the best job we can. But we can't create cakes that express every message that people ask us.

BROWN: So Jack, how have Christians come alongside you in this and did that support change at all as this battle has just dragged on for years?

PHILLIPS: No, we have fellow believers, even people who are not believers, but the church has really come through to support us, and they call and encourage us. I remember one day a man called me up. This was years ago, in the middle of the day. I don't know who he was, but he said, My wife and I are just about to pray for you. What can we pray? How can we pray for you today? And I thought, This man is actually, literally praying for me, not like, Okay, I'll pray for you later, but right then. And so that kind of comments and those kind of things just have really inspired us and kept us going.

REICHARD: I can hear that in your voice Jack, just how much that meant to you. Jim, back to you for a moment. How have you been challenged watching Jack go through all this?

CAMPBELL: It's challenging watching him go through it, because it's just not fair. It's just not fair for 12 years of Jack's life to be distracted by all of this. But on the flip side, it's been encouraging to watch Jack. Jack's faith is unlike a faith that I have seen before, and that's not hyperbole. I've never met someone like Jack. Jack does not worry. He's not frightened. He's not fearful. He has faith in the Lord to walk him through difficult places, and that has encouraged my faith To walk alongside him.

BROWN: Amen, amen. And so Jack, you're back in the shop, right?

PHILLIPS: I'm in my office right now, and the shop is open. I don't know if you hear we have a buzzer on the door when people come in, so hopefully you hear some commotion up there. But yeah, we're in the shop. We're working away.

BROWN: Well, we’re rejoicing with you. Christian baker Jack Phillips and Alliance Defending Freedom Chief Legal Counsel Jim Campbell have been our guests today…thank you both for your time!

PHILLIPS: It was our pleasure. Thank you.

CAMPBELL: Thank you.

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