Welcome to the podcast election

There are well over 100,000 podcasts out there. By any metric, the space seems bloated, but podcasts are only becoming more popular. The first podcast was released in 2003. Old news, right? Wrong. As with any new technological trend, there is a lag between its initial splash, the feeling of being cutting edge, and its real effect at scale. We’re beginning to see this delayed effect politically. If Kennedy-Nixon was the first television election, Trump-Harris is the first podcast election. And Trump is winning it.

Former President Donald Trump has been running the podcast circuit lately, with the pinnacle of podcastdom rumored to be on the horizon today: The Joe Rogan Experience, which brings in 11 million views per episode on average and has a combined 31 million subscribers across YouTube and Spotify. Rogan’s interview with Elon Musk has been viewed 68 million times. For perspective, when Tucker Carlson Tonight was at the height of prime time on Fox News, it had between 3 million and 4 million nightly viewers. Today, Carlson’s current online show is garnering more than 6 million views, and his podcast briefly topped Rogan on Spotify over the summer.

Supposedly, Barron Trump has advised his father on which shows to go on. Over time, the former president has looked more and more comfortable in these environments. Perhaps his real superpower is an intuitive grasp of media in all forms. On the Flagrant podcast, Trump kept comedians Andrew Schultz and Akaash Singh rolling with personal anecdotes laced—or woven, as he would prefer—with bits of political commentary more subdued than his rally performances. Some celebrities speculate that the Flagrant appearance alone will move young black men over to Trump’s side.

A month ago, Trump went on This Past Weekend w/Theo Von for a more personal interview than 60 Minutes could ever get out of him, talking about the alcoholism of his older brother and the family dynamics in his own household, as well as golf and MMA. It was candid and relatable. More importantly, it got 1.2 million views. Edison Research ranks Von’s show in the top 10 podcasts in the country.

Impulsive With Logan Paul, a top 20 show, has also featured Trump. Paul has a combined 46 million followers across platforms. Lex Fridman, the Shawn Ryan Show, All-In, and Bussin’ With the Boys from Barstool Sports are all top podcasts that have had the Republican nominee on. Both Trump and vice presidential nominee J.D. Vance have gone on the Full Send Podcast. Many of these shows snag attention through spectacle, like when the streamer Adin Ross gifted Trump a Cybertruck, blending Trump’s natural medium, reality TV, with new media.

It’s not just the niche podcasts that Trump goes on. He hits the regular conservative circuit shows hosted by Ben Shapiro, Todd Starnes, Dave Ramsey, and Brian Kilmeade. But his emphasis has been on podcasts with young male subscribers. These podcast hosts aren’t household names in the typical sense, but their reach is huge, and Trump is using that reach better than Vice President Kamala Harris.

Appearing on podcasts is not a complete campaign strategy, but it is and will continue to be a significant piece of the PR puzzle. Reportedly, some 34 percent of Americans listen to a podcast every week, and 59 percent of people under the age of 35 listen to a podcast at least once per month, with 7 percent more men listening weekly than women. If you talk to regular people, they are increasingly disillusioned with mainstream, traditional mediums of information. They don’t watch television. They stream movies and TV shows but otherwise consume news or political punditry through podcasts and streaming shows. Podcasts also cater to social media. Snappy video clips are the best mode to reach young people, and podcasts are naturally conducive to TikTok and Instagram. The highlight clips will get more impressions than the show itself.

This morphing media ecosystem has coincided with Trump’s rise and is serving him better than it did in 2016. Traditional outlets can now be circumvented almost entirely. Even legacy shows like NBC News’ Meet the Press don’t matter as much anymore.

Along with Trump, or maybe because of him, conservatives are gobbling up the new media. As Hassan Piker, the 30-something Bernie Bro streamer said recently, the streaming and podcasting world is increasingly dominated by the right or center-right. That space is also predominately male, and young men are trending rightward—and they’re voting.

Of course, many podcasters are not conservative. Rogan might best be described as an iconoclast. Anything and everything goes that generates interest and includes conservative viewpoints. On the more discernably conservative side, and apart from the more flamboyant and edgy Carlson, Shapiro, Megyn Kelly, Dan Bongino, Charlie Kirk, and Matt Walsh all host shows ranked in the top 100.

Harris’ attempt to catch up with an appearance on the seedy and sensual Call Her Daddy, which has 3.7 million subscribers and may represent a female exception to market trends, is feeble. It is too little too late compared to Trump, who has prioritized podcast appearances in his campaign and has thereby catered to an otherwise unreachable audience. Thus far, Harris has tended toward the regular late-night TV show stops like The Late Show With Stephen Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel Live! Notably, Pod Save America, the show hosted by ex-Obama staffers and ranked in the top 50, has not had her on. Neither has The Weekly Show With Jon Stewart, another top pod.

Whatever the outcome of the presidential election, one thing seems likely, podcasts will have played a significant role in that outcome. Debates, press conferences, and TV interviews are on the way out; podcasts are in.