While certainly well-intentioned, I am unsure if age verification will have the desired effect. It's very costly to implement, doesn't always work well (I'm still having trouble getting LinkedIn's identity verification service to recognize that I am who I say I am), and (last but not least) requires you to give some faceless company your personal information. The latter is especially important; while people (might) be willing to do so in a paid transaction, I highly doubt most adults would be willing to do so for something that is at least nominally free. Age verification spells the death-knell of "free" websites such as PornHub.
Of course, less smut in the world is a good thing. However, let's take a look at some realities for a moment. The vast majority of children's exposure to pornography occurs through a small number of high-profile ad-driven websites, mostly PornHub, XVideos, Xhamster, Rule34, Reddit, and Instagram. The latter two exist in a sort of grey zone; these social media sites are primarily non-pornographic, but allow pornographic content and are less-than-stellar when it comes to parental controls*. As it stands, it's fairly simple to block these websites with device-level parental controls; the problem is that most parents don't bother, only to be shocked and appalled when their little angels come across something they shouldn't.
Now, here's the big problem: if those big, easily-blocked websites go under, the porn won't just magically disappear. Instead, it'll get redistributed to a bunch of small shady/pirate sites** which ignore regulations, be they age verification or CP suppression. Enforcers would end up playing a massive and unwinnable game of whack-a-mole similar to Prohibition and the War on Drugs.
* DeviantArt also used to fall into this category, but to their credit, they've put a lot of effort into separating NSFW art from non-NSFW art.
** Note that a number of these small sites already exist, and are already a problem due to their apathy towards illegal content. My point is that age verification would turn this manageable problem into a very, very big one.
pjp
I’m not sure what the first amendment issue is. Pornographers can still produce their “speech”. The issue that they are concerned about is that individuals who want to see this material will have to identify themselves. I would submit that those viewing don’t want to be known as an element of shame still exists. Therefore many viewers will not access this “speech” because they want their anonymity which cuts into the pornographers’ profits. Sounds like a win to me.
I tend to be pessimistic about the possibility of our political leaders ever truly cracking down on the porn industry. Your optimism regarding possible positives coming from this ruling is encouraging, but I do want to take issue with a concession that you and so many tend to give too easily. You say, "Pornographers can still produce their 'speech'."
We all have been programmed to accept pornography as a "necessary evil" in the effort to preserve our First Amendment rights. However, as I understand it, the First Amendment does not protect obscenity. If images and videos of people engaging in sexual acts is not obscene, then nothing is, and "obscenity laws" are a complete and utter farce. It seems to me if more courageous people would demand more from our elected representatives, they should be able to figure out how to preserve our cherished free speech rights -- like voicing unpopular opinions -- while at the same time protecting our children.
Again, I'm not optimistic. Pornography will likely continue to thrive with legal protection, and I will never understand why. It is absolutely devastating to our culture and brings zero positives. ...I just wish I had read and commented earlier so I might see more discussion on this.
" "obscenity laws" are a complete and utter farce"
There you go. That's your answer.
Jason Maas
I’m interested in the tech side of an age verification system and it’s hard for me to imagine something other than a Big Tech company or a government agency becoming the age verification monopoly that every relevant website/app uses. I’m curious to see where it goes.
While certainly well-intentioned, I am unsure if age verification will have the desired effect. It's very costly to implement, doesn't always work well (I'm still having trouble getting LinkedIn's identity verification service to recognize that I am who I say I am), and (last but not least) requires you to give some faceless company your personal information. The latter is especially important; while people (might) be willing to do so in a paid transaction, I highly doubt most adults would be willing to do so for something that is at least nominally free. Age verification spells the death-knell of "free" websites such as PornHub.
Of course, less smut in the world is a good thing. However, let's take a look at some realities for a moment. The vast majority of children's exposure to pornography occurs through a small number of high-profile ad-driven websites, mostly PornHub, XVideos, Xhamster, Rule34, Reddit, and Instagram. The latter two exist in a sort of grey zone; these social media sites are primarily non-pornographic, but allow pornographic content and are less-than-stellar when it comes to parental controls*. As it stands, it's fairly simple to block these websites with device-level parental controls; the problem is that most parents don't bother, only to be shocked and appalled when their little angels come across something they shouldn't.
Now, here's the big problem: if those big, easily-blocked websites go under, the porn won't just magically disappear. Instead, it'll get redistributed to a bunch of small shady/pirate sites** which ignore regulations, be they age verification or CP suppression. Enforcers would end up playing a massive and unwinnable game of whack-a-mole similar to Prohibition and the War on Drugs.
* DeviantArt also used to fall into this category, but to their credit, they've put a lot of effort into separating NSFW art from non-NSFW art.
** Note that a number of these small sites already exist, and are already a problem due to their apathy towards illegal content. My point is that age verification would turn this manageable problem into a very, very big one.
I’m not sure what the first amendment issue is. Pornographers can still produce their “speech”. The issue that they are concerned about is that individuals who want to see this material will have to identify themselves. I would submit that those viewing don’t want to be known as an element of shame still exists. Therefore many viewers will not access this “speech” because they want their anonymity which cuts into the pornographers’ profits. Sounds like a win to me.
I tend to be pessimistic about the possibility of our political leaders ever truly cracking down on the porn industry. Your optimism regarding possible positives coming from this ruling is encouraging, but I do want to take issue with a concession that you and so many tend to give too easily. You say, "Pornographers can still produce their 'speech'."
We all have been programmed to accept pornography as a "necessary evil" in the effort to preserve our First Amendment rights. However, as I understand it, the First Amendment does not protect obscenity. If images and videos of people engaging in sexual acts is not obscene, then nothing is, and "obscenity laws" are a complete and utter farce. It seems to me if more courageous people would demand more from our elected representatives, they should be able to figure out how to preserve our cherished free speech rights -- like voicing unpopular opinions -- while at the same time protecting our children.
Again, I'm not optimistic. Pornography will likely continue to thrive with legal protection, and I will never understand why. It is absolutely devastating to our culture and brings zero positives. ...I just wish I had read and commented earlier so I might see more discussion on this.
I concur with you. My comments were about this narrow ruling. That’s why I put the word “speech” in quotation marks.
" "obscenity laws" are a complete and utter farce"
There you go. That's your answer.
I’m interested in the tech side of an age verification system and it’s hard for me to imagine something other than a Big Tech company or a government agency becoming the age verification monopoly that every relevant website/app uses. I’m curious to see where it goes.