https://julieroys.com/opinion-open-letter-to-john-macarthur/
Dr. Mohler in the past you have had to apologize supporting ministers who were abusive. Please read the above link. John Macarthur has repenting of his own to do. He apparently cares about the life of babies, I do as well, but does he care about them when they are children and women that are abused in his church? Does he give the abusers a pass or permission to abuse? When will male leaders in the church start calling out other male leaders who support abuse of their sisters in Christ?
there is a disagreement on what happened in the case, and the case went to the supreme court, and they were acquitted of any wrongdoing
SpankyDave
Dr. Mohler: MacArthur lacks credibility to speak having not protected the vulnerable. Oppression via MacArthur/GCC counseling is well-documented. MacArthur & all of us must learn from wise resources, https://www.wtsbooks.com/collections/abuse, to truly follow Christ in our counsel. Lives hang in the balance!
Ps 34:18 The LORD is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit
I didn't defend Newsom. Not sure where you get that. I was commenting about Macarthur. This is not unclear from my comment. Newsom's actions are horrific but Macarthur must be above reproach,which he is not.
John macarthur and the GCC counseling staff were cleared of clergy malpractice by the supreme court. apparently there are disagreements on the facts of the case
We'll documented by third party documents. Video of excommunication. Abused women and children are the most vulnerable and should be listened to. God draws near to the brokenhearted.
well documented? by whom? different people have different versions of what happened. however, the supreme court apparently went with Macarthur's version
RRIZ9165
Satan used Scripture to tempt our Lord so we shouldn't be so surprised when nonbelievers use it similarly.
Just as Jesus responded with the correct use of Scripture so should we, and as in this case be most concerned for the souls of those we are speaking to and their influence on others.
Leo Allard
Can wicked rulers be allied with you,
those who frame injustice by statute?
They band together against the life of the righteous
and condemn the innocent to death.
- Psalm 94:20-21 (ESV)
SAWGUNNER
We need bill boards encouraging the Dads of all ages to be devoted to their kids from the minute the egg is fertilized to the end of that Dad's life!
SAWGUNNER
I still recall Newsom's gleeful boast about the arrival of gay marriage "whether you want it or not". The irony was that the same sex marriage advocate evidently cared little for his own marriage to his first wife. In that regard he was the opposite side of the coin from Mark Sanford of SC
SAWGUNNER
MacArthur is Jonah among the Ninevites.
I pray for Christian revival in the deep blue enclaves throughout our nation but certainly out on the Left Coast where the regnant liberal ethos exerts its dead grip over so much culture and political discourse
mikeb
"After all, Gavin Newsom was woke before anyone knew what it meant."
I certainly disagree with Gov. Newsom's policies & actions when it comes to LGBTQ & abortion stuff. But please stop calling that stuff "woke". I found your quote above ironic considering many have hijacked that word & redefined it. Please read Benjamin Watson's article here (https://thewatsonseven.bulletin.com/you-can-t-define-woke-so-i-will) for more information.
The thing about the word 'woke' is that when it was introduced, it was used for a lot, and I mean a LOT, of different meanings. Even the people who use it today don't all agree on what it means. So I, personally, from where I'm standing as a writer and mad literalist, think that the word itself ought to be flat-out abandoned and replaced with more properly descriptive words that actually clearly denote what is meant by them.
AKUT6959
I applaud Pastor John MacArthur for speaking the truth so boldly to Gov. Newsome who will indeed answer to God for his actions and rejection of Christ. I believe pastor MacArthur truly is concerned for his soul and wants him to come to know the truth. This is much deeper than trying to change Newsom's politics. It's about a much needed change of heart before it's too late.
Oppression via MacArthur/GCC counseling is well-documented. MacArthur & all must learn from wise resources, https://www.wtsbooks.com/collections/abuse, to truly follow Christ in our counsel. Lives hang in the balance. Ps 34:18 The LORD is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit
what is considered abuse? speaking the truth? people can't even agree on what happened. The supreme court went with macarthur's version of what happened
not silent
As many here have read, I shared the gospel with atheists and various other skeptics online for several years. I obviously can’t speak to Gov. Newsom’s spiritual state, and I may be projecting and/or overgeneralizing. Please forgive me if that’s the case. I’m just trying to share info that might be helpful, though I realize God uses many different things for his glory.
The reason this article struck me was that many of the atheists and skeptics online were former churchgoers, and some had even been to seminary! They often credited their education with opening their eyes to the “truth” and helping them see they had been “deceived.” (Most were clearly angry about it!)
Because there was quite a bit of knowledge about the certain aspects of Christianity, it was extremely common for the atheists and skeptics to use the Bible or other religious reference to goad Christians into making angry and emotional statements that could then be used to attack and discredit them. This kept the debate on their terms and allowed them to feel in control. They “expected” Christians to immediately start talking about judgment and usually responded with scorn. (E.g., “Ah-ha! This confirms my view that I am right and that Christians are all ignorant, hateful, and judgmental.”)
I felt God was leading me not to say things that played into this script or immediately caused the walls to go up but instead to start asking questions that challenged the underlying beliefs. E.g., “As a believer, I totally agree with loving my neighbor as myself. I would personally want to know all the data before engaging in an invasive medical procedure and if there were alternatives to said invasive procedure. Considering how important and emotionally charged an issue like abortion is, don’t you think those who are considering it should have full disclosure beforehand?” Or: “There has been some debate about exactly what a ‘fetus’ is. Given that fetal DNA is different from the mother’s and that, at certain stages of development, it may have a rudimentary heartbeat and nervous system, what do you think it is?” Or: “A fetus is considered a ‘baby’ at birth and often is described that way long BEFORE birth. Isn’t a ‘baby’ a human being? So what exactly determines when a fetus or embryo is a ‘baby’ (and, therefore, human) and when it is just ‘tissue’ or ‘part of a woman’s body’?” Etc.
(Just my initial thoughts, not meant to be the only way.)
Here’s another thing I thought of: “Were you aware that there are groups in other states that provide some types of care for women facing unexpected pregnancy free of charge? In light of your desire to help women-and the costs that would be involved with transportation and an abortion procedure-is that something you might support, especially as it could allow women/pregnant people more choices?”
Thank you for your excellent comment and strategy. Indeed, Jesus calls us to be "shrewd as snakes but innocent as doves" (Matthew 10:16), and this requires understanding Satan's strategies and not allowing ourselves to get played by him. I agree with you that forming relationships that then offer the opportunity to ask probing questions is often a more fruitful tactic (expertly explained in Greg Koukl's book "Tactics").
While I totally understand where John MacArthur is coming from, I wonder what would happen if he met privately with Gavin Newsom to pray for him and express concern for his soul while at the same time leaving him with "Columbo" questions to ponder regarding Jesus and true love for neighbor. (Your sample of questions to ask a pro-abortion advocate are excellent examples of this.) Who knows? Maybe they could even develop a relationship where the Spirit of God and the prophetic Word has the opportunity to penetrate the halls of power. (Billy Graham's ministry to US presidents comes to mind. Only God knows how much evil may have been thwarted by a prophetic word spoken by Graham to a president and his advisors.) As it stands, MacArthur's open letter to Newsom is just a "missile" that will burn up in Newsom's "missile defense system".
Meanwhile, I agree with others that suggest that a pro-life ad campaign could redirect California's/Newsom's ad by using the same Scripture ("love your neighbor") but applying it to innocent unborn babies and their moms who have been, and are being, deceived and traumatized by the abortion industry.
Thanks. Of course, I like to use the way God has led me to use. But…I have learned that he doesn’t call everyone to exactly the same ministry or to do things exactly the same way.
I previously learned several different “scripts” for sharing the gospel, and they were helpful in SOME settings; but none of them worked with atheists online! What did help (and what I demonstrated here) was what one of our pastors actually called the “Columbo method.” E.g., as your comment described it-asking questions! The other piece was to admit (to myself) that I didn’t have all the answers and to trust God to provide them in the moment. He ALWAYS did.
(Frankly, no human being could POSSIBLY answer all the questions and comments I encountered! One person described bubble universe theory and acted like they made it up on the spot! I had never heard of bubble universe theory but felt pretty certain no one had made up something like that on the spot. I did have Google and I did have God! Over time, God showed me how to present the gospel using the multiverse. I’d love to pretend I was really smart and came up with all these great ideas myself, but it was ALL GOD!)
At any rate, re the open letter being a “missile”: as my previous comment indicates, I would tend to agree. That’s why I presented an alternative. And… who knows who and what God might use? Maybe the “missile” will have some effect on someone. It’s all God.
By the way, excellent suggestions for John MacArthur re Gov Newsom! It definitely helps in sharing the gospel (or any truth) to build a relationship and demonstrate one cares. But it can be extremely difficult because people can often tell whether or not someone ACTUALLY cares Vs making them a “project.” (God often has to work in my heart and through me-as he did online.)
May God grant us all wisdom in these challenging times!
https://julieroys.com/opinion-open-letter-to-john-macarthur/
Dr. Mohler in the past you have had to apologize supporting ministers who were abusive. Please read the above link. John Macarthur has repenting of his own to do. He apparently cares about the life of babies, I do as well, but does he care about them when they are children and women that are abused in his church? Does he give the abusers a pass or permission to abuse? When will male leaders in the church start calling out other male leaders who support abuse of their sisters in Christ?
there is a disagreement on what happened in the case, and the case went to the supreme court, and they were acquitted of any wrongdoing
Dr. Mohler: MacArthur lacks credibility to speak having not protected the vulnerable. Oppression via MacArthur/GCC counseling is well-documented. MacArthur & all of us must learn from wise resources, https://www.wtsbooks.com/collections/abuse, to truly follow Christ in our counsel. Lives hang in the balance!
Ps 34:18 The LORD is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit
Actually no. Nice try though.
What's that supposed to mean Why even bother with a comment like that? Yes, malpractice in Christian ministry does disqualify.
Of course, because LIVES ARE IN THE BALANCE!
Stop defending Newsom. The guy is evil incarnate.
I didn't defend Newsom. Not sure where you get that. I was commenting about Macarthur. This is not unclear from my comment. Newsom's actions are horrific but Macarthur must be above reproach,which he is not.
John macarthur and the GCC counseling staff were cleared of clergy malpractice by the supreme court. apparently there are disagreements on the facts of the case
We'll documented by third party documents. Video of excommunication. Abused women and children are the most vulnerable and should be listened to. God draws near to the brokenhearted.
well documented? by whom? different people have different versions of what happened. however, the supreme court apparently went with Macarthur's version
Satan used Scripture to tempt our Lord so we shouldn't be so surprised when nonbelievers use it similarly.
Just as Jesus responded with the correct use of Scripture so should we, and as in this case be most concerned for the souls of those we are speaking to and their influence on others.
Can wicked rulers be allied with you,
those who frame injustice by statute?
They band together against the life of the righteous
and condemn the innocent to death.
- Psalm 94:20-21 (ESV)
We need bill boards encouraging the Dads of all ages to be devoted to their kids from the minute the egg is fertilized to the end of that Dad's life!
I still recall Newsom's gleeful boast about the arrival of gay marriage "whether you want it or not". The irony was that the same sex marriage advocate evidently cared little for his own marriage to his first wife. In that regard he was the opposite side of the coin from Mark Sanford of SC
MacArthur is Jonah among the Ninevites.
I pray for Christian revival in the deep blue enclaves throughout our nation but certainly out on the Left Coast where the regnant liberal ethos exerts its dead grip over so much culture and political discourse
"After all, Gavin Newsom was woke before anyone knew what it meant."
I certainly disagree with Gov. Newsom's policies & actions when it comes to LGBTQ & abortion stuff. But please stop calling that stuff "woke". I found your quote above ironic considering many have hijacked that word & redefined it. Please read Benjamin Watson's article here (https://thewatsonseven.bulletin.com/you-can-t-define-woke-so-i-will) for more information.
The thing about the word 'woke' is that when it was introduced, it was used for a lot, and I mean a LOT, of different meanings. Even the people who use it today don't all agree on what it means. So I, personally, from where I'm standing as a writer and mad literalist, think that the word itself ought to be flat-out abandoned and replaced with more properly descriptive words that actually clearly denote what is meant by them.
I applaud Pastor John MacArthur for speaking the truth so boldly to Gov. Newsome who will indeed answer to God for his actions and rejection of Christ. I believe pastor MacArthur truly is concerned for his soul and wants him to come to know the truth. This is much deeper than trying to change Newsom's politics. It's about a much needed change of heart before it's too late.
Oppression via MacArthur/GCC counseling is well-documented. MacArthur & all must learn from wise resources, https://www.wtsbooks.com/collections/abuse, to truly follow Christ in our counsel. Lives hang in the balance. Ps 34:18 The LORD is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit
what is considered abuse? speaking the truth? people can't even agree on what happened. The supreme court went with macarthur's version of what happened
As many here have read, I shared the gospel with atheists and various other skeptics online for several years. I obviously can’t speak to Gov. Newsom’s spiritual state, and I may be projecting and/or overgeneralizing. Please forgive me if that’s the case. I’m just trying to share info that might be helpful, though I realize God uses many different things for his glory.
The reason this article struck me was that many of the atheists and skeptics online were former churchgoers, and some had even been to seminary! They often credited their education with opening their eyes to the “truth” and helping them see they had been “deceived.” (Most were clearly angry about it!)
Because there was quite a bit of knowledge about the certain aspects of Christianity, it was extremely common for the atheists and skeptics to use the Bible or other religious reference to goad Christians into making angry and emotional statements that could then be used to attack and discredit them. This kept the debate on their terms and allowed them to feel in control. They “expected” Christians to immediately start talking about judgment and usually responded with scorn. (E.g., “Ah-ha! This confirms my view that I am right and that Christians are all ignorant, hateful, and judgmental.”)
I felt God was leading me not to say things that played into this script or immediately caused the walls to go up but instead to start asking questions that challenged the underlying beliefs. E.g., “As a believer, I totally agree with loving my neighbor as myself. I would personally want to know all the data before engaging in an invasive medical procedure and if there were alternatives to said invasive procedure. Considering how important and emotionally charged an issue like abortion is, don’t you think those who are considering it should have full disclosure beforehand?” Or: “There has been some debate about exactly what a ‘fetus’ is. Given that fetal DNA is different from the mother’s and that, at certain stages of development, it may have a rudimentary heartbeat and nervous system, what do you think it is?” Or: “A fetus is considered a ‘baby’ at birth and often is described that way long BEFORE birth. Isn’t a ‘baby’ a human being? So what exactly determines when a fetus or embryo is a ‘baby’ (and, therefore, human) and when it is just ‘tissue’ or ‘part of a woman’s body’?” Etc.
(Just my initial thoughts, not meant to be the only way.)
Here’s another thing I thought of: “Were you aware that there are groups in other states that provide some types of care for women facing unexpected pregnancy free of charge? In light of your desire to help women-and the costs that would be involved with transportation and an abortion procedure-is that something you might support, especially as it could allow women/pregnant people more choices?”
Excellent comment.
Thank you for your excellent comment and strategy. Indeed, Jesus calls us to be "shrewd as snakes but innocent as doves" (Matthew 10:16), and this requires understanding Satan's strategies and not allowing ourselves to get played by him. I agree with you that forming relationships that then offer the opportunity to ask probing questions is often a more fruitful tactic (expertly explained in Greg Koukl's book "Tactics").
While I totally understand where John MacArthur is coming from, I wonder what would happen if he met privately with Gavin Newsom to pray for him and express concern for his soul while at the same time leaving him with "Columbo" questions to ponder regarding Jesus and true love for neighbor. (Your sample of questions to ask a pro-abortion advocate are excellent examples of this.) Who knows? Maybe they could even develop a relationship where the Spirit of God and the prophetic Word has the opportunity to penetrate the halls of power. (Billy Graham's ministry to US presidents comes to mind. Only God knows how much evil may have been thwarted by a prophetic word spoken by Graham to a president and his advisors.) As it stands, MacArthur's open letter to Newsom is just a "missile" that will burn up in Newsom's "missile defense system".
Meanwhile, I agree with others that suggest that a pro-life ad campaign could redirect California's/Newsom's ad by using the same Scripture ("love your neighbor") but applying it to innocent unborn babies and their moms who have been, and are being, deceived and traumatized by the abortion industry.
Thanks. Of course, I like to use the way God has led me to use. But…I have learned that he doesn’t call everyone to exactly the same ministry or to do things exactly the same way.
I previously learned several different “scripts” for sharing the gospel, and they were helpful in SOME settings; but none of them worked with atheists online! What did help (and what I demonstrated here) was what one of our pastors actually called the “Columbo method.” E.g., as your comment described it-asking questions! The other piece was to admit (to myself) that I didn’t have all the answers and to trust God to provide them in the moment. He ALWAYS did.
(Frankly, no human being could POSSIBLY answer all the questions and comments I encountered! One person described bubble universe theory and acted like they made it up on the spot! I had never heard of bubble universe theory but felt pretty certain no one had made up something like that on the spot. I did have Google and I did have God! Over time, God showed me how to present the gospel using the multiverse. I’d love to pretend I was really smart and came up with all these great ideas myself, but it was ALL GOD!)
At any rate, re the open letter being a “missile”: as my previous comment indicates, I would tend to agree. That’s why I presented an alternative. And… who knows who and what God might use? Maybe the “missile” will have some effect on someone. It’s all God.
By the way, excellent suggestions for John MacArthur re Gov Newsom! It definitely helps in sharing the gospel (or any truth) to build a relationship and demonstrate one cares. But it can be extremely difficult because people can often tell whether or not someone ACTUALLY cares Vs making them a “project.” (God often has to work in my heart and through me-as he did online.)
May God grant us all wisdom in these challenging times!